[Ford Prefect]

You're making this very personal. As counterintuitive as it may seem, debates really become less "enlightening" when you begin to call into question the "souls" of those with whom you are debating.

[Janos]

Originally posted by Ford Prefect
You're making this very personal. As counterintuitive as it may seem, debates really become less "enlightening" when you begin to call into question the "souls" of those with whom you are debating.

psssssssst
That's what they do when they are losing argument! :V

No, not really. This is exactly the question which's difficulty lies in different morals of individuals - as seen here, some see it a-ok to pull the plug, some don't, and personal experiences just kinda mix the pot and don't really change opinions all that much. Thus we can only talk so much from objective and calm point of view, and eventually we have to use our personal morality as the guide on whether this thing is ok or not. This does not mean that the debate should revert to namecalling and flaming (yeah right I wish).

[Flipside]

Well, the way I see it, people who want to die tend to close themselves off from the real world, close themselves off and await the inevitable. The whole fact that this woman is still showing interest and reactions suggests that, brain damaged as she may be, she is still a part of this world.

I suppose though, the day we start judging humanity by it's mental fitness to be a useable resource then we are all screwed....oh...hang on.....

[Ford Prefect]

Well, the way I see it, people who want to die tend to close themselves off from the real world, close themselves off and await the inevitable. The whole fact that this woman is still showing interest and reactions suggests that, brain damaged as she may be, she is still a part of this world.

I suppose though, the day we start judging humanity by it's mental fitness to be a useable resource then we are all screwed....oh...hang on.....

Except that there's no reason to believe that her behavior is evidence of an interest in anything, as Raa said earlier:

Originally posted by Raa
Supposedly those clips that DB posted are only mere moments of a 4 hour video. And that supposedly she makes similar noises and movements (the blinks and the like) when she's alone in her room, too.

I suppose if there isn't much of a logical basis for debate, (certainly a legitimate point), then there's really no point in arguing in the first place, because we have now inevitably turned onto Relativism Highway, which leads directly to Nihilism City. It's got a night life like you wouldn't believe but don't try to make a point.

[Omniscaper]

"That's what they do when they are losing arguement!"-Janos

I didn't realize I was even arguing. I was mearly throwing in my 2 cents on the matter. This situation should not incite arguement and debate. It should provoke deep reflection on the current state of the human condition.

[Ford Prefect]

This situation should not incite arguement and debate. It should provoke deep reflection on the current state of the human condition.

But there is no 'should.' When an issue is presented, people will interpret a certain way. It's like saying the Earth should be flat.

[Janos]

Originally posted by Omniscaper
"That's what they do when they are losing arguement!"-Janos

I didn't realize I was even arguing. I was mearly throwing in my 2 cents on the matter. This situation should not incite arguement and debate. It should provoke deep reflection on the current state of the human condition.

I need sarcasm tags.

This is worth arguing and discussion. It's a pretty big deal, and outcome has a big impact on several people. Schiavo's condition sucks, ok, but the debate is not about that. It's about the right to die and when the doctors can end someone's life.

[Omniscaper]

Oh let me guess.... Moral Relativisim.

I'm sorry,

I choose active compassion over idle intellectual vanity.

[Flipside]

Well, even a two year old autistic child has intelligence, even if there is great difficulty in accessing it. I wonder what this lady would have to say for herself if she did manage to recover? Brain injuries have been known to do that before, but they take a significantly longer time that other injuries, but the brain is capable of slowly 'rewiring' itself around some injuries.

I suppose, at least the way I see it, I'd much rather my taxes go towards keeping somebody alive who did not choose to be this way than paying for methadone for junkies who then go out and sell it for Heroin money.

[Janos]

Originally posted by Omniscaper
Oh let me guess.... Moral Relativisim.

I'm sorry,

I choose active compassion over idle intellectual vanity.

classy

So you don't really want to go into the reasons, you just want to cry over anything and don't thrive for change?

[Omniscaper]

classy

[Flipside]

Wasabi!

[Ace]

Originally posted by Ford Prefect
...because we have now inevitably turned onto Relativism Highway, which leads directly to Nihilism City.

[SIZE=40]DARTH NIHILUS!!!111[/SIZE][/b]

Seriously though, everytime I hear someone ***** about "moral relativism" I'm reminded of a certain shrub...

[Deepblue]

You know what? The issue is nearly a nule point because she is going to die soon, its her 6th day without food or water. I hope you people are happy.

Personally I hope that some compassionate person finds a way to get her the food she needs.

[Flipside]

You know, to me personally this method of letting her die goes against the Hippocratic Oath. Triage is one thing, but to allow someone to starve to death over several days is doing harm. That is neither right nor dignified, in fact, I personally find it more than a little sickening.

Can you imagine if you were a mind trapped in a body that wasn't obeying it's commands? And then to sit and watch helplessly as they remove your only line to life, and check up on you to see how well you are dying?

That's not medicine in my books.

[Deepblue]

Apparently her skin has been cracking from the dehydration. This whole case horrifies me.

[.::Tin Can::.]

Originally posted by Janos


classy

So you don't really want to go into the reasons, you just want to cry over anything and don't thrive for change?

If there really was any reason in any of this, her husband would divorce her and let her parents take care of her. Wouldn't that make sense?

After all, when dealing with a particular individual's life, and I mean their life, then emotions play a very big part in the debate...

{sarcasm} However I suppose we should unplug her feeding tube and let that fat **** get 20 million dollars... after all, it's not like Terry is actually alive, so why don't we all take her life in our own hands and decide what's best? {/sarcasm}

An interesting thing for those who don't know what happens when you die from starvation or dehydration. Your skin dries out and cracks open, and your kidney's fail and your body posions itself. It's a slow and painful process, and watching someone slowly begin to decompose is horrid.

[Omniscaper]

Dude starves dog, dude goes to prison. Dude starves wife, dude gets money.

What is wrong with this picture.

[Drew]

(note: i wrote this last night, when the thread was only getting started, so i probably missed somthing. i never got to post it then, but the hell with it.)

over %50 of her higher brain functions have been reduced to liquid.

She is in a state which many different private, and independent goverment appointed doctors describe as persistent vegetation, of which there is no recovery. Basically, a body in that state can support involuntary functions, and minimal reactions to stimuli.  

All those alleged reports of her husband assulting her are just that, alleged. There is no evidence of such things ever happening, and if t here was, it wouldnt be relevent to the current case.

In its state, the terri schiavo case is not a case to ultimatly decide if she lives or dies; it is actually a case deciding the jurisdiction of the courts. Instead of leaving the decision in the hand of the State of Florida, the Republicans introduced legislation to expand the power of a Federal court into the decisions that have been, for literally hundreds of years, decided by the family and _local_ governments.   The first  bill on Terri's life was rejected, even with a Republican majority. Instead, they optioned for the second bill, which was convenitly slated for a late emergency vote, making the Republicans look like the saviors of this poor womans life. When Republicans in the House passed their bill that allowed a Federal court to decide the life or death Terri, they immediatly overstepped the moral and  ethical jurisdiction of Law and grossly expanded the powers of government into peoples lives.

If a Federal government can decide who lives, the step to allowing the Federal government who dies is not logically far away. Even if the Federal court decides to save Terri's life, the step into  What if the Terri case was in an opposite situation, such as if Republicans opened the door for Terris parents to plead for her death?

[Flipside]

For me, as much as I'd like to see her given a chance to live, my biggest problem is the way she is being tortured to death, which is essentially what it boils down to.

For a government to say the Euthanasia is inhumane and yet fail to step in and intervene on the simple grounds of Human Rights is beyond me.