[Deepblue]

Okay, lets get rid of the issue of whether she wants to die or not. Why now?? Why can't we take the time to look at this case in detail? Why can't the parents have the right to take care of their child?

[Flipside]

If her parents are willing to take on the responsibility of that, then the only problem the husband could have with it is that he wouldn't get the money, that is the only difference in the outcomes for him. This needs to be borne in mind.

[Ford Prefect]

Seriously though, everytime I hear someone ***** about "moral relativism" I'm reminded of a certain shrub...

Oh, I wasn't *****ing about it. I live in the dark void of moral uncertainty. Relativism is like heroin to me.

[redmenace]

*Sigh*
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050323/ids_photos_ts/r4209066064.jpg

Reminds me of the days of Operation Rescue.

Even if Randal Terry is a Son of a B*tch.

[Flipside]

They could, at the very least  Euthanise her if they intend for her to die. What sort of image does this kind of thing project when the world is sitting round watching a hospital of all places starve a person to death?

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Flipside
Well, even a two year old autistic child has intelligence, even if there is great difficulty in accessing it. I wonder what this lady would have to say for herself if she did manage to recover? Brain injuries have been known to do that before, but they take a significantly longer time that other injuries, but the brain is capable of slowly 'rewiring' itself around some injuries.

I suppose, at least the way I see it, I'd much rather my taxes go towards keeping somebody alive who did not choose to be this way than paying for methadone for junkies who then go out and sell it for Heroin money.

Originally posted by Flipside
You know, to me personally this method of letting her die goes against the Hippocratic Oath. Triage is one thing, but to allow someone to starve to death over several days is doing harm. That is neither right nor dignified, in fact, I personally find it more than a little sickening.

Can you imagine if you were a mind trapped in a body that wasn't obeying it's commands? And then to sit and watch helplessly as they remove your only line to life, and check up on you to see how well you are dying?

That's not medicine in my books.

I don't think she's aware of it; her cerebral cortex is apparently turned to liquid (and it can't regrow and thus repair the damage).  AFAIK it's effectively painless because she doesn't have the mental capacity to feel pain... whilst the states of dehydration are descriptively horrifying, they don't amount to much for a person incapable of feeling pain or thirst, or even perceiving what is happening to them.  Some of the main deteriorations during dehydration actually match the symptoms of PVS anyways/

They should be allowed to euthanize her, though, simply because of the image and how it's emotively manipulated (in a way that will only hurt the family).

Oh, and RE: 'why now?'  It's been 7 years since the first petition to remove treatment was made.   They've not exactly been short on time to examine the case in detail.

I'd point out that, if the husband believes his wife is suffering, then offering / withdrawing money won't be an issue.  Remember he's already been offered $1m to hand over custody to the parents.

[Stealth]

Originally posted by Omniscaper
There have been many cases where people have been LABELED "a vegatative state" who have made nearly full recoveries. I've a particular instance where a lady was labeled as such, and she remembered the entire ordeal, that she was conscious and was trapped in a body that couldn't communicate her her thoughts. She was freakin screaming from the inside when they pulled her feeding tube for 8 days.
Yeah, but how many of those cases have a large part of their brain (particularly the cerebral cortex, i believe they said, in terri's case) turned to mush.  non-functioning mush.  human technology is good nowdays, but not when it comees to rebuilding brains...


Terry could have been rehabilitated if her husband actually tried to help her.
1) there's no proof that she "could have been rehabilitated IF"...
2) live for today... who cares if she could've been rehabilitated and become the richest, most powerful person in the world 10 years ago.  right now, there's no hope for her. consider what IS, not what WAS or what COULD"VE been

Its sad really.

I hope you all never have to go through a similiar situation. Its so easy to make heartless judgements from the sidelines. Let see if your "enlightened" thoughts hold up.
i hope if i'm ever in the same situation, i'm put out of my misery...

[Stealth]

Can you imagine if you were a mind trapped in a body that wasn't obeying it's commands? And then to sit and watch helplessly as they remove your only line to life, and check up on you to see how well you are dying?

OK....the cerebral cortex (in Terri's case: what's turned to mush) controls all higher level mental functions.  Breathing, heartbeat, etc. is controlled by the medulla, which is at the top of the spinal chord (note:  completely different part from the cerebral cortex).

that's why some people who are on machines that keep them breathing, their heat beating, etc. are still fully conscious.  on the other hand, there are some (i.e. Terri?) who are 'conscious', but have no memory, are not able to RETAIN memory, and are basically just going to be vegetables their whole life.

IIRC it's the hypothalamus that's responsible for processing pain, which may/may not be still functioning in Terri's case, i don't know.

[Flipside]

I suppose my problem with the whole starving to death thing is the same thing as with Death itself. Without being there, how can anybody make a definitive statement what is 'aware' and what is not? True there have been people who died and have 'come back', but the experiences of these cases vary from 'Nothing' to 'I saw God and he said "You are to return and be given large sums of money"'.

The same rule applies to Coma. No matter the situation her mind is in, if she is alive without any mechanical apparatus other than the feed tube, then how can we be certain the 'Lizard Brain', the part that controls Hunger, Sex drive etc, is not reacting, how can we know.

Personally, after 7 years, I would say that if dramatic improvement hasn't happened by this stage that it is unlikely to, but I find little empathy in the behaviour of these professionals, and that concerns me greatly, maybe this is some kind of radical stand against the anti-Euthenasia laws but either way, I find this quite a horrid way to end someones life

[Deepblue]

Shes worsened in the last years because her husband has denied her therapy and treatment.

@Aldo

Yes he's been offered a million, but the insurance would probably provide a lot more than that. It seems this guy is simply a greedy selfish ******. When nurses told him that Teri was has an infection of some sort he would get excited and sputter how rich he was going to be. When she got better he asked "when is that ***** going to die?

[Deepblue]

One more thing, how are you guys so sure her cerebral cortex is mush? There has not been a single CAT scan or MRI performed on her EVER. And if she is able to respond to her father's questions (albiet with unintelligible sounds, however she pauses when he speaks and responds to each question with a sound, sometimes varying the sound). In addition to that, a nobel prize winning neurologist spent 11 hours with her and concluded that she could recover and that she is NOT in a persistent vegetative state. However, it may be too late now that shes been starving for 6 days.

[Deepblue]

Okay, this part just bugs me.

"Supporters of Schiavo’s parents grew increasingly dismayed, and 10 protesters were arrested outside her hospice for trying to bring her water. "

That statement makes me feel depressed at the condition of the human race.

[Deepblue]

Sorry 'bout the quad post but something else caught my eye. Terri can smile at her parents, how many vegetables can express emotions?

[Stealth]

a 6 month old baby can smile at people.  that proves nothing about whether she knows what's going on or not.

[Stealth]

Originally posted by Flipside

The same rule applies to Coma. No matter the situation her mind is in, if she is alive without any mechanical apparatus other than the feed tube, then how can we be certain the 'Lizard Brain', the part that controls Hunger, Sex drive etc, is not reacting, how can we know.

because we know what the role of the cerebral cortex is in a human;  we also know that hers is mush

[Deepblue]

Originally posted by Stealth
a 6 month old baby can smile at people.  that proves nothing about whether she knows what's going on or not.

Should we start starving small babies and mentally retarted children?

[Deepblue]

Originally posted by Stealth
because we know what the role of the cerebral cortex is in a human;  we also know that hers is mush

In addition to that, a nobel prize winning neurologist spent 11 hours with her and concluded that she could recover and that she is NOT in a persistent vegetative state.

There has not been a single CAT scan or MRI performed on her EVER.

So tell me, how do you know?

[Ghostavo]

Originally posted by Deepblue
So tell me, how do you know?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schiavo#Schiavo.27s_condition

Most of Schiavo's cerebral cortex has been completely destroyed, replaced by spinal fluid; Dr. Ron Cranford, a neurologist at the University of Minnesota assessed Schiavo's brain function in 2001 as part of a court-ordered assessment. He was quoted in Florida Today as saying "[Schiavo] has no electrical activity in her cerebral cortex on an EEG (electroencephalogram), and a CT (computerized tomography) scan showed massive atrophy in that region."

[IceFire]

If I were the person in question.  I'd want them to put me in a canoe on a secluded lake and let me go.  After 15 years, there has been no improvement, only her autonomic functions are operating, the higher brain functions are essentially gone.  We are prolonging life for what reason?  So we can comfort ourselves and pat ourselves on the back because were preserving life?  What life?  Let her find peace.

At the very least, I'm told that she feels no pain.  That is fortunate.

Just what I believe...my 0.02 cents.

[.::Tin Can::.]

And yet somehow she can tell her husband "I want to die"...