Author Topic: What if Shivans didn't exist in FreeSpace? (Read 7942 times)

TopAce · **on:** March 24, 2005, 03:42:18 pm

What do you think would have become to the Terrans and the Vasudans if the Shivans hadn't interfered the fourteen year war?
Which side would have won this war? How would the Terran-Vasudan war end? Would have been there peace as a resolution?

Thoughts are welcome.
Here's my theory:

Although we can only guess how the Terran and Vasudan technology could have improved, I strongly assume the Terrans would have reached a higher technological in the long run. They had the Avenger and the Apollo. The Vasudans only had the Anubis as their mainstay fighter and only a handful of Seth fighters.
Total exhaustion and economical recession would have led both sides to sign an armistice, but after a few years of reconstruction, they certainly would have found a valid reason why to continue the war. The continued war would have been even bloodier and more exhausting, which would only end after another fourteen-fifteen years of bloodshed with a total victory of either side.

aldo_14 · **Reply #1 on:** March 24, 2005, 03:55:36 pm

There would have been no war as there would have been no game.

IMHO, I also reckon it would have ended in stalemate and armistace; the Vasudan Typhon apparently was far superior to the Orion, and doubtless they would have produced their own advancements - we just don't see the full picture of Vasudan tech in FS1.

However, I don't think there would be a final war, unless an extremist leader took control of either side. Perhaps, however, local skirmishes and Kashmir / NS Korean border type tension.

Andreas · **Reply #2 on:** March 24, 2005, 04:35:42 pm

If the Shivans wouldn't exist in the Freespace universe in the first place, the Ancients would have propably wiped out/enslaved the Terrans and Vasudans.

If the Shivans wouldn't have interfered, then I would see the T-V war lasting for a couple of years more, eventually propably ending in some sort of armstice, seeing as how both the GTA and the PVE, according to the reference bible, were on the brink of internal and economical collapse. But the Terrans would propably gain an upper hand in the conflict for a while, seeing how the had developed the shield system, Avenger cannon and the GTF Valkyrie.

Just a thought, how were the shield systems developed in the first place? Doesn't one mission in Silent Threat point out that the GTI had been aware of the Shivans before the whole thing blew over? Perhaps the GTI captured Shivan shield technology (like in the mission Pandora's Box) at some point?

castor · **Reply #3 on:** March 24, 2005, 05:01:37 pm

Technological development goes (loosely) hand to hand with spiritual development..
Vasudans couuldn't exterminate terrans, nor wouldn't Shivans.
Remember: all: Terrans, Shivans, Vasudans 're students here..

BlackDove · **Reply #4 on:** March 24, 2005, 05:29:24 pm

If there weren't any Shivans, there would be the Ancients to take their place.

Kie99 · **Reply #5 on:** March 24, 2005, 05:31:32 pm

@ Castor

castor · **Reply #6 on:** March 24, 2005, 05:34:06 pm

@BD
Don't you think they.. are? Someplace.

castor · **Reply #7 on:** March 24, 2005, 05:37:17 pm

Quote

Originally posted by kietotheworld
@ Castor

Could you be a bit more specific, Kie?

Charismatic · **Reply #8 on:** March 24, 2005, 05:55:15 pm

I think Kie is signaling about the religion and tech thing.
I think the [A] are someplace. Always thought it'd be neat to see them again.

If the [A] were inplace of the shivans, we (depending on their size) probably would kick their ass. Why? Look:

1)Ancients got WIPED without a fight, by Shivans.
2)Shivans had no shield tech on fighters.
3)We kicked shivan ass in Great W.2. We actually pushed them back.
4)Acients must not be as powerfull as they seem.
5)So that concludes we would beat ancients or atleast hold them off.

Why hold them off\beat them?

1)Acients did not posess any great wonderfull technology that was so good it stopped the shivans, so they had no trick up their sleev that would beat Terrans but not Shivans.

castor · **Reply #9 on:** March 24, 2005, 06:24:15 pm

Hi Char

Yet we don't know how developed the "ancients" were/are..
They seem very developed. Most of the Ancient tech known to us is beyond of what we comprehend.
Look at the problems they faced at their times? They may have (been forced to) develop tech to assist them that not humans nor shivan would interpret as life..

karajorma · **Reply #10 on:** March 24, 2005, 06:30:07 pm

Quote

Originally posted by Charismatic
1)Acients did not posess any great wonderfull technology that was so good it stopped the shivans, so they had no trick up their sleev that would beat Terrans but not Shivans.

Except for the fact that they could kick the **** out of us 8000 years ago when we had nothing but sticks and stones.

aldo_14 · **Reply #11 on:** March 24, 2005, 06:44:49 pm

Quote

Originally posted by Charismatic
I think Kie is signaling about the religion and tech thing.
I think the [A] are someplace. Always thought it'd be neat to see them again.

If the [A] were inplace of the shivans, we (depending on their size) probably would kick their ass. Why? Look:

1)Ancients got WIPED without a fight, by Shivans.
Eh? The monologues clearly indicate that the Ancients fought until the end - why do you think they were working on subspace tracking? (the had no ships left to use it by then)

They also imply a larger Shivan force with multiple shielded destroyers, IIRC.

2)Shivans had no shield tech on fighters.
Absolutely no evidence to support that - for eithe the Shivans or Anicents
3)We kicked shivan ass in Great W.2. We actually pushed them back.
Um.... the Shivans captured 2 GTVa systems, 'decimated' the fleet (according to end cutscene), destroyed the Colossus, and supernova-ed a GTVA system star, killing millions+

Scarcely got their ass kicked, then.

4)Acients must not be as powerfull as they seem.
Their system spanned an area far larger than the GTVA, developed subspace tracking technology, and also node-stabilising tech. The former implies great strength of numbers at the least, and the latter 2 imply higher technology levels than the GTVA
5)So that concludes we would beat ancients or atleast hold them off.
Um, no it doesn't, because 1-4 are either completely wrong or simply unfounded.

Why hold them off\beat them?

1)Acients did not posess any great wonderfull technology that was so good it stopped the shivans, so they had no trick up their sleev that would beat Terrans but not Shivans.
Neither did the GTVA... until they found the Ancients legacy - the information how to track and destroy the Lucifer. In other words, 'we' built on what the Ancients had done - it was Anceint tech, not GTVA, that allowed the Lucifer to be destroyed

BlackDove · **Reply #12 on:** March 24, 2005, 06:51:10 pm

Good writing Kara and Aldo - a big WTF goes to the rest of you.

Ghost · **Reply #13 on:** March 24, 2005, 06:59:57 pm

Quote

What if Shivans didn't exist in FreeSpace?

Then it'd be pretty damned boring.

Yeah, I know, I'm looking forward to the TVWP, too, but come on... Admit it. There'd be no point. The storyline would be pretty stale...

Kie99 · **Reply #14 on:** March 24, 2005, 07:24:20 pm

Quote

Originally posted by castor

Could you be a bit more specific, Kie?

I can't comprehend anything about the post.

Charismatic · **Reply #15 on:** March 24, 2005, 11:34:12 pm

Well from what iv read into the Shivan Manifesto, IIRC it says we basically won the FS2 war, 2nd great war, for the most part.

The 'no fighter shields' was based on, oh. they did have shields in fs1. Hmm. Well from the shield strength, it seems it was recently developed, thus they didnt have it back then.

You are right about the ancients, sorry for my mis calculation.

Falcon · **Reply #16 on:** March 24, 2005, 11:47:34 pm

If Shivans didn't exist we wouldn't have Carl..........

WMCoolmon · **Reply #17 on:** March 24, 2005, 11:54:42 pm

Where is this 'Shivan manifesto'? It doesn't seem to be at the local library.

The Shivans also had 32 years to upgrade their shielding technology and didn't really seem to do a whole lot...the Mara has stronger shields, but not quite next-generation ones.

Not to mention if the fighters weren't shielded, why did the Ancients say they wouldn't die? If they were killing fighters left and right, that's not really "they wouldn't die".

And if shield tech is easier to use on a large-scale basis rather than a small-scale basis, why was the Lucifer the only shielded capship?

Grimloq · **Reply #18 on:** March 24, 2005, 11:55:51 pm

Castor, that first post of yours made as much sense as a slightly drunk eel trying to hump a doorknob. Please elaborate.

castor · **Reply #19 on:** March 25, 2005, 03:10:12 am

LOL, seems I really cut one corner too many there

The thought was to extend the discussion beyond the simple point of technologial superiority (If I read myself correctly, hmm).
...the whole FS story has so many loose ends and unknown motives one could fit almost anything into it (and its hard not to, while giving it a thought).

( Well, okay I admit I got a bit carried away at the end

)

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