[delta_7890]

Originally posted by Swamp_Thing
´

What if i´m the meter man, and enter your house to check the meter, and you just shoot me, because you weren´t expecting the meter man to come by?
Right, no lawsuit...

Most meters are on the outside as I recall.  Oo;

[delta_7890]

Originally posted by Swamp_Thing


Just because you don´t want it to work, that´s all.
Suppose you are in the shower, and can´t hear the door bell. The meter man still needs to enter your yard. So you get out of the shower, and notice some guy creeping around your yard. You feel threatened, so out comes the customized assault rifle, and bye bye goes a meter man...

What this bill is trying to do is turn every house into a man´s medieval castle, where you do what the hell you want to anyone coming in, even if they come in peace. It´s a license to kill your neighbour, and go scott free.
Maybe i don´t like the milkman, because i got it through my thick skull that he´s banging my wife. So all i need to do is wait behind the bushes... Goodbye milkman.

That's what he gets for screwing the missus!  XD

[Swamp_Thing]

Originally posted by delta_7890


Most meters are on the outside as I recall.  Oo;

No, they aren´t. Not usually. In apartment buildings, the electricity meter is inside your flat. And in houses, the meter is on your yard. Either way the meter man needs to enter your property.

I would like to see what those who suport this bill would say, if they or some family member got shot by an over zealous home owner, while doing their job.
It´s always good untill it happens to them...

[redmenace]

Originally posted by Swamp_Thing


Just because you don´t want it to work, that´s all.
Suppose you are in the shower, and can´t hear the door bell. The meter man still needs to enter your yard. So you get out of the shower, and notice some guy creeping around your yard. You feel threatened, so out comes the customized assault rifle, and bye bye goes a meter man...

What this bill is trying to do is turn every house into a man´s medieval castle, where you do what the hell you want to anyone coming in, even if they come in peace. It´s a license to kill your neighbour, and go scott free.
Maybe i don´t like the milkman, because i got it through my thick skull that he´s banging my wife. So all i need to do is wait behind the bushes... Goodbye milkman.

I guess you would have criminals freely entering homes getting shot and suing?

I am sure this bill would not pass with out some provisions for what would be threatening. A person coming onto your property to your door obviously is not threatening. So basically a standard of reason is most likly applied. Now if a person enters your property and after repeated requests to leave and threats to the intruder of being shot that would be a threat to your self and property. Walking down the street and a bum flashes a knife and I feel threatened. That situation would be within reason. A Bum comes after me for some change and I shoot the bum. That is not within reason.

[IceFire]

Originally posted by Swamp_Thing


No, they aren´t. Not usually. In apartment buildings, the electricity meter is inside your flat. And in houses, the meter is on your yard. Either way the meter man needs to enter your property.

I would like to see what those who suport this bill would say, if they or some family member got shot by an over zealous home owner, while doing their job.
It´s always good untill it happens to them...

Not what happens around here.  Houses...all meters are outside.  Apartments may be different.  Meter man just goes from house to house checking meters.  Must be different down there.

The rest is lunacy.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Swamp_Thing


No, they aren´t. Not usually. In apartment buildings, the electricity meter is inside your flat. And in houses, the meter is on your yard. Either way the meter man needs to enter your property.

Every meter in my street, other than my house, is located outside the house.  Same for most places AFAIK, because otherwise checking the meter would be dependent upon people being in the house.

[Zarax]

Meters are all inside here...

[Swamp_Thing]

Originally posted by aldo_14


Every meter in my street, other than my house, is located outside the house.  Same for most places AFAIK, because otherwise checking the meter would be dependent upon people being in the house.

Outside the house, or outside the yard? Also, water meters are outside, but electric meters are not, due to the possibility of people tampering with it. If the meter is outside, you are no longer liable for anything that happens to it, including someone steeling juice from your pipeline.
Gas meters are also inside, to avoid any tampering that could lead to a gas leak.
It´s all in the building code. And i should know, that´s what i did for a living in my previous life.

Now, if the code is diferenty in the US, and you allow gas meters outside, you should start looking there for your next possible terrorist hit, shouldn´t you? How much does it take to pull in your driveway, rupture a main pipe, and wait for the gas to build up to a nice little bright explosion?

But never mind the meter man. How about the milkman? Or the neighbour that comes asking for a cup of sugar, or your lawn mower ( yeah, i know, people who borrough land mowers never return them, so they should be shot).  Or how about your son´s new study partner, who happens to be a black kid, and as all black kids he must be a thief? (sarcasm)

The meter man was just an example. Let´s not dwell on it.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by redmenace

I guess you would have criminals freely entering homes getting shot and suing?

I am sure this bill would not pass with out some provisions for what would be threatening. A person coming onto your property to your door obviously is not threatening. So basically a standard of reason is most likly applied. Now if a person enters your property and after repeated requests to leave and threats to the intruder of being shot that would be a threat to your self and property. Walking down the street and a bum flashes a knife and I feel threatened. That situation would be within reason. A Bum comes after me for some change and I shoot the bum. That is not within reason.

I believe there are alread laws allowing self defense in the US; there certainly are in the UK.  The emphasis is on proportionate self defense, I believe; same as you'd prosecute a police marksman for killing someone under the wrong circumstances.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Swamp_Thing


Outside the house, or outside the yard? Also, water meters are outside, but electric meters are not, due to the possibility of people tampering with it. If the meter is outside, you are no longer liable for anything that happens to it, including someone steeling juice from your pipeline.

Gas/Electrical meters are on the outside of the house, within a large locked plastic thing which the meterman checks.  AFAIK we don't actually have water meters, at least not in Scotland.

EDIT; IMO it's perfectly possible that a jumpy houseowner could be spooked by a meterman coming at the evening and think their searching for the meter box was an attempt to break in.

I think a more likely scenario is someone panicing - either from being a vitcim of crime, witnessing an accident, etc - knocking on a door to get help, and being shot for their troubles.  IIRC this has happened before.

[Charismatic]

(Red 1\4th of topic)

Im scared now. Thats ****ed up ****. Man, why do i live here?

Thats it, soon im moveing to Canada.. tho i never wanted to leave Wisconsin. *Sigh*

[Cobra]

oh sure, give $83 billion dollars to Iraq so they can build more weapons and destroy the US. my god, is anyone THINKING up there?

[Charismatic]

...no

that was a stupid question. hehe.

[Cobra]

yeah, they're not thinking at all. lights are on but nobody's home.

[Unknown Target]

I'm not moving. I'm staying in the US as long as I can, to try and help fix things. But if they start to get really draconian, I'm moving. And you can be sure as hell if I have any kids (doubtful, but still) - they're going to be Canadian.

[EtherShock]

In that kind of scenario, Canada would be overwhelmed with refugees. I don't know if they could handle it all. I'm staying here as well, until every last glimmer of hope fades. Then we will run the rebellion from Canada.

I think a few states would go rogue though. I doubt they would all pledge their allegiance to a dictatorship. I could be wrong however. Why am I even talking about this? Such morbid thoughts, this is terrible!

[Ace]

Such a dictatorship would come extremely slowly, to the point that no one would realise it is one.

Look at the power that the executive branch has now compared to when the country was first founded. Originally being a senator was a more powerful role, the President was a figurehead.

Now the President has direct control of nuclear weapons, and an entire security department. In my mind, the President has had too much power since the Cold War primarily due to being 'Commander and Chief' of the military and nuclear weapons falling under military control.

[Swamp_Thing]

Naaah, you guys are just in shock because you just witnessed a democracy falling at the sound of aplause, and Palpatine happens to look a bit like Bush.  

Though there was a striking resemblance, between Palpatine´s adress of the senate and Bush´s state of the union speech...


EDIT:
Ok, who´s the first to photoshop Bush´s face into Darth Sidius´s  body?

[NGTM-1R]

Historically, though, the conversion from democracy to dicatorship is not a slow process. It comes quite rapidly, within the space of 4 or 5 years at most. That's not quite long enough for nobody to notice large portions of the Constitution being overturned or rewritten.

[redmenace]

In regaurds to proportinate response, obviously there is something wrong when criminals can enter your home then sue when you shoot them for it.