[Woomeister]

I've been working on ways that additional mods and content downloads will be done using the INF Archives.

This is my current plan:

Mods will be packaged into small VP files. So each individual ship will be a seperate VP file, and will include any additional maps and content that it requires. Table entries will be handled using modular table files included in the VP files. These will be added to the bottom of the main ships table. (remember that the core files are installed directly into the data subfolders and should not be edited)

The VP files will come in an installer and will create a special mod directory. So for example C:\Games\Inferno\INFMods\
You then add a -mod INFMods command line to the launcher.
All of these ships will be added to the same directory by default, so can can enable and disable all additional content with one command.
It will not install to the root Inferno dirctory as there are VP files required by the game to work and I don't want accidental deletions. The installer will also add a Docs folder were each VP file will have a text file with instructions and information about what you installed so you can always figure out what additional stuff you have installed.

Any mods that change an existing ship or weapon should be placed in seperate mod subfolder and should be switched to by the SCP launcher. This will prevent incompatability issues with the main campaign.

To remove a specific ship you can just delete its VP file. To disable the lot just remove the command line. If you want to customise a specfic ship or its table entry simply extract it and create your own -mod directory with your edited content.
It would be recommended if your making a custom campaign that uses a few extra mods to create your own package/archive and use you own mod directory. The mod command line can then be changed to your new mod so that the additional stuff they have installed doesn't conflict with your mod.

By using this system it should be possible to play both the main campaign, any expansions and have some additional mods at the same time. Which will reduce issues with user mods like the problems with R1 SCP and SAH.

I plan on converting many ships to our weapons and texture name format myself and already have 4 additional ships nearly ready for testing.
If you would like to see a ship converted over I'll take requests. However I need permission from the original author to edit and repackage their files. These can be from abandoned campaigns, completed campaigns, INF R1, or even unfinnished modeldump ships.
If your a mod maker and would like to see a INF SCP compatable version of your ship, feel free to donate it as long as I can make minor edits if needed to maintain compatability with the above format.

Note the above is the format I will be using for our extra content releases. If someone else makes a ship or campaign they do not have to package it like the above. However they will be expected to use the -mod commandline system. I just plan on packaging many ships myself so that newcomers can use them easily.
Hopefully this will become more clearer as we approach release.

[Trivial Psychic]

How about the Pachet?

[RED DIAMOND]

All of this is of serious interest to me as I have just started my MOD using the Inferno engine. The mod ships are the ones from the OTT pack that Nico did. I have renamed them and made some minor mods to make them fit the side they will be used for. I stuck them in the ships table in between the GTA and EA. The four new weapons added were at the end of the weapons tbl file.

I would be glad to use this format to comply, but I had some problems using the modular ship add ons with FRED and crashes when making missions. In addition, just exactly how the heck do you guys make those vp pack files?

[Woomeister]

Originally posted by Trivial Psychic
How about the Pachet?

Well it's a bit like the Tanen. But there's no harm adding it to the list.

[Woomeister]

Originally posted by RED DIAMOND
All of this is of serious interest to me as I have just started my MOD using the Inferno engine. The mod ships are the ones from the OTT pack that Nico did.

Since I was once OTT staff, and even project lead for some time. I already have the OTT ships. Most of the Vasudan fighters are already used in the core mod and we have custom versions of the Ryujin and Raiden. We also have exlcusive use of OTTs SD Yama.

OTT ships have to be edited to work well in the next release however, but since I still have some of the original source files it isn't too much of a task.

If there's a specific ship you would like to see ported to INF SCP from OTT let me know.


Hopefully I'll have to to write a modding guide on how to edit and package mods for use with INF SCP which will discuss modular tables, the mod commandline, and VP file making.
It'll be a bit different to a normal modding guide as we have things structured a bit differently now that we use a stand alone system.

[RED DIAMOND]

The ships I used were only the ones Nico made, I was told. The black matte ones that were going to be used for NGTA are the ones I converted for use in the mod.

Aegis
Caerus
Chiron
Cyllene
Ezechiel
Gaia
Ladiel
OTTTanks
Raziel
Titan
Uriel

Were all renamed and converted for the new faction I planned for my mod. So really I don't just need them added per se, added as a new faction within the inferno world is what I was shooting for. That is why I placed all of the ships into the ships.tbl(along with the fact that the modualrs keep crashing other modulars I have like the "Holler").

At this point I had just planned on making a new directory for the mod (SON) and just having the guys place the inferno core file in that main directory. Then it is just a matter of dropping the new files in the correct directories and using the launcher to point to the mod just like now.

I really want to get this right and make it easy for guys to use as well. The other thing I changed is the messages tbl. I just extracted the original from FS2 and use that instead of the one with inferno. I really HATE no having voices in mission and the one that shipped with inferno cuts 99% of the verbal cues????

So all that to say, Is inferno changing in the next release to be completely standalone like TBP? If so, maybe I should wait to start until I get a copy and make sure it works right? I could always just do some fun mission for inferno until then. Let me know.

[Woomeister]

Aegis - Too basic and wouldn't look good with other maps, so I don't plan a reconvertion.
Caerus - Same ship as above with horrible awacs bits really
Chiron - Planned, don't know if it'll use EA or GTVA maps though.
Cyllene - Planned, needs map reduction
Ezechiel - Have the HTL version so this one isn't needed
Gaia - Plan a total rebuild of this one
Ladiel - Planned after remap
Tanks - Planned as well as the station they connect too
Raziel - Planned once I figure how to remap it
Titan - Might use this as an EA heavy transport for Icanus components after a remap
Uriel - Same as Ladiel

Originally posted by RED DIAMOND
Were all renamed and converted for the new faction I planned for my mod. So really I don't just need them added per se, added as a new faction within the inferno world is what I was shooting for. That is why I placed all of the ships into the ships.tbl(along with the fact that the modualrs keep crashing other modulars I have like the "Holler").

Stuff in this thread are for the next release of the mod. Any I rebuild will default to an existing faction though you can change the maps and use them as a different faction if you like. You can even add the faction to the species table if your willing to do quite a bit of work to prevent crashes

Originally posted by RED DIAMOND
I really want to get this right and make it easy for guys to use as well. The other thing I changed is the messages tbl. I just extracted the original from FS2 and use that instead of the one with inferno. I really HATE no having voices in mission and the one that shipped with inferno cuts 99% of the verbal cues????

INF SCP uses the built in speech support for in game messgaes, and the default beeps for low priority wingman ones. You won't be able to extract the normal FS2 one this time as the EA require personas not listed in the regular table and so the game will crash without them.

Originally posted by RED DIAMOND
So all that to say, Is inferno changing in the next release to be completely standalone like TBP? If so, maybe I should wait to start until I get a copy and make sure it works right? I could always just do some fun mission for inferno until then. Let me know.

Sort of yes. We include all files except warble_fs2.vp which must be copied over to have full music. Otherwise you don't need another version of FS2 installed to play. Most mods and content created for INF SCP are not compatable with FS2, FS2 SCP, INF R1, INF R1 SCP or any other campaigns using the standard FS Open as a base. This is because we ripped out all the old textures, replaced them with the updated ones from Lightspeeds shine package, deleted all unused ones and then renamed the remaining ones to a new naming system. This breaks compatability with regular FS2 ships, mods using any FS2 maps, Lightspeeds shinemaps, animated glowmaps and anything else in the FS Open media VPs. The result is a standalone package our team has direct control over what gets added to or changed, but is still highly modable.

R1 and INF SCP are not compatable at all and so R1 made missions and ships don't work with the new build. Ships can be converted over easily enough, but missions won't work as the entire weapon table was replaced with new updated weapons, and most of the ships have been replaced or changed, and so most of INF R1 doesn't exist anymore in the new mod. Hence why I'll take requests to port INF R1 models to the new mod as addons. Stuff I'm doing here won't be in the default download. You can pick and choose what you want out of these and make any additional edits to them you require for user made mods.

[RED DIAMOND]

Ok so that changes things for me completely. I had asked in the models area about the use of those models I listed and a guy named Nico said it was ok. That was the only reason I did it.

Understanding you are going to use these models and that anything made for Inferno now won't work with Inferno later makes working on a mod for it a complete waste of time. No worries, just no mod from me for inferno.

I really was not trying to get the stuff I changed in the official inferno project. The mod was not going to be inferno cannon it was just based on the inferno world with an additional faction.

Back to basics  I guess. I will now fall back onto plan "B" which really is just missions battle college style no intricate mod and story. Especially since anything made now won't work shortly

[Woomeister]

Originally posted by RED DIAMOND
Ok so that changes things for me completely. I had asked in the models area about the use of those models I listed and a guy named Nico said it was ok. That was the only reason I did it.

Yeah Nico/venom made the models and I converted them to FS2. There's nothing stopping you using them or adding them to R1.

Originally posted by RED DIAMOND
Understanding you are going to use these models and that anything made for Inferno now won't work with Inferno later makes working on a mod for it a complete waste of time. No worries, just no mod from me for inferno.

I'm not using them, I'm making custom versions that are compatable with the next release so that others can use them. As they stand some of the OTT ships would not work correctly in INF SCP. Anything made with R1 works for R1. INF SCP is more of a bigger brother to INF R1 and not a direct sequel. We still plan on supporting INF R1, however the main campaign of INF R1 will not be continued. It doesn't stop people making mods for it, and then making another version for INF SCP. However you may want to wait for the next release before you start anything if you don't want to support INF R1 anymore.

Originally posted by RED DIAMOND
Especially since anything made now won't work shortly

Ok here's an example

This is the Phobos from R1.

This is it's first 5 turret entries:

Code: [Select]


$Subsystem: turret01,0.833,1.0
 $Default PBanks: ( "GTVA Rapid Laser" "GTVA Rapid Laser" )
$Subsystem: turret02,0.833,1.0
 $Default PBanks: ( "GTVA Rapid Laser" "GTVA Rapid Laser" )
$Subsystem: turret03,0.833,1.0
 $Default PBanks: ( "GTVA Rapid Laser" "GTVA Rapid Laser" )
$Subsystem: turret04,0.833,1.0
 $Default PBanks: ( "GTVA Rapid Laser" "GTVA Rapid Laser" )
$Subsystem: turret05,0.833,1.0
 $Default PBanks: ( "GTVA Rapid Laser" "GTVA Rapid Laser" )


This is the current phobos:


And it's first 5 turrets:

Code: [Select]


$Subsystem: turret01,0.833,1.0
 $Default PBanks: ( "T-AF-Las-LR-C" )
$Subsystem: turret02,0.833,1.0
 $Default PBanks: ( "T-AF-Las-LR-C" )
$Subsystem: turret03,0.833,1.0
 $Default PBanks: ( "T-AF-Las-LR-C" )
$Subsystem: turret04,0.833,1.0
 $Default PBanks: ( "T-AF-Las-LR-C" )
$Subsystem: turret05,0.833,1.0
 $Default PBanks: ( "T-AF-Las-LR-C" )


If you look at the textures section in the pics you can see they don't match. In INF SCP textures like TCov1a which is found in the main FS2 vp files do not exist in our mod, and so the old Phobos model needs converting to the new map names.

As you can see with the tables, all the weapons are different, meaning the old entry would not work in the new release as it would load the ship with no weapons.

R1 mods and campaigns will be fine with R1, but not in the next release.

Does that help explain it a bit better?

[RED DIAMOND]

Ah yes! it does:nod:

Ok so I will use the ships I listed as the bulk of the new faction I created. I guess then it would be ok to make the first part of the campaign maybe just 4-5 missions now. Converting them for the next version seems like it won't be that much of an issue which is good. The ship and weapon thing could get out of hand on the convert depending on how many are in each mission, something to think about now

In terms of making the custom OTT ships for use in inferno scp, I suppose it would mean there will be multiple versions of the same craft, just with differnet mappings as a possibility, which is cool with me for sure.  The new faction I made does not paint their craft anyway, so the black matte as it is, works for me.

Thanks for explaining it, I appreciate your time and hard work.

OH P.S. Sorry to bug you but I really would like to know if the SOC and Ancients  are going to still be in the next version. I think you can guess why, since it might effect somebody plot:nervous:

[Woomeister]

Originally posted by RED DIAMOND
In terms of making the custom OTT ships for use in inferno scp, I suppose it would mean there will be multiple versions of the same craft, just with differnet mappings as a possibility, which is cool with me for sure.  The new faction I made does not paint their craft anyway, so the black matte as it is, works for me.

Most of the OTT ships will be remapped and returreted. The Ryujin for example wasn't much use to us with its turret layout so I redid the entire thing to match our style. The other OTT ships may get the same treatment. Some need remapping to reduce the number of maps so they work better in the HTL system. There's no problem in using multiple versions of the same craft. By disabling the mod folder with these ships I'm building in and activating your own mod folder, other versions of the same ship will not overwrite each other. People can then play your mod then swap back to the other mod folder when they want to.

Our SOC ships use similar maps to the NGTA ships from OTT.

Originally posted by RED DIAMOND
OH P.S. Sorry to bug you but I really would like to know if the SOC and Ancients  are going to still be in the next version. I think you can guess why, since it might effect somebody plot:nervous:

only a few of the old SOC ships are in there, such as the GTF Banshee which is smaller and has different weapon layouts to the old one.
The Ancient fleet was ripped out and dumped. They now have an entirely new capship fleet and several new fighter classes that join the Kato. This will be released as a major expansion at a later date.

[RED DIAMOND]

Wow Woomeister sounds like of work to change what you already have spent so much time creating with Inferno.

Hmm, in looking at this there really is a question about support of the original inferno when something(better) is coming soon after.
I guess any full content mod would not be wise at this time. Certainly not one that involved the SOC or Ancients. Hmm, I got some tough choices to make here

I would love to really get fully behind one of these TC's (TBP/Inferno), but I also don't want to spend of time on a full blown campaign mod nobody is going to play once the latest version hits the streets.

I think I may just do a short intro about the new faction and then do the battles as recreations of what already occurred. Kind of like how the first X-Wing allowed you to replay the historical battles(Battle college style). That way I could release some stuff guys could use for inferno now while we all wait for the next version to be released later this year.

BTW, the way I am attempting to set it up is that the remapped ships would not conflict at all with the my new mod ships. I have renamed the pof's and if the new copies of the same ship have a different name and paint scheme, they should be no conflict or need for of switching around right?

[Woomeister]

Originally posted by RED DIAMOND
Wow Woomeister sounds like of work to change what you already have spent so much time creating with Inferno.

Well it has taken nearly 2 years to redo it

Originally posted by RED DIAMOND
I would love to really get fully behind one of these TC's (TBP/Inferno), but I also don't want to spend of time on a full blown campaign mod nobody is going to play once the latest version hits the streets.

Some people may stay with R1. The system requirements for this version are a huge leap over FS2 retail.

Originally posted by RED DIAMOND
BTW, the way I am attempting to set it up is that the remapped ships would not conflict at all with the my new mod ships. I have renamed the pof's and if the new copies of the same ship have a different name and paint scheme, they should be no conflict or need for of switching around right?

They shouldn't conflict. If we reuse any of the OTT maps, they'll have the same names as now. So you don't need to rename the maps really unless you plan on changing them. once released I'll release a list of the FS2 map names and what they need to be changed to so modders can convert their own stuff to the new map system.

The model files will be renamed to our prefix code:

INF< Ship Type >< Ship Number >
so for example INFFighter01

So if you kept the Gaia as Gaia.pof, ours will be something like INFCapital15.pof so they won't conflict with the ones I convert over.

The INF prefix codes are for our use only though, otherwise you may break later content patches

[RED DIAMOND]

Wow! 2 years, thats dedication bro.

Ran into a little problem that maybe you can sort out for me mate. The OTT pack has two fighters (ezechiel "problem" and the raziel "no problem") and two bombers(ladiel "problem" and the uriel "no problem").

Now the two that are a problem are only that way in fred with modular tbl's, they crash it. The funny thing is when inserted into the ships.tbl file they don't crash fred. Only the name shows up though, so I imagine there is something at issue with the models.

The question is have you worked on the two problem models ezechiel and ladiel and gotten them to work with modular tables. If so, I was wondering if I could get those versions, since they work. Cheers.

[Woomeister]

Originally posted by RED DIAMOND
Wow! 2 years, thats dedication bro.

That's 2 years since the last release, it's been almost 5 overall

Originally posted by RED DIAMOND
Now the two that are a problem are only that way in fred with modular tbl's, they crash it. The funny thing is when inserted into the ships.tbl file they don't crash fred. Only the name shows up though, so I imagine there is something at issue with the models.

The question is have you worked on the two problem models ezechiel and ladiel and gotten them to work with modular tables. If so, I was wondering if I could get those versions, since they work. Cheers.

If your using the INFR1 SCP, extract the tables and add the ships to it that way. Since there's no planned patches for R1 you don't really need to worry about modular tables for R1.
As for the problems make sure you've copied over all the maps each ship requires into the data\maps directory, and if you still want to use modular tables make sure the filename ends with -shp.tbm.
If your using a recent SCP build have you tried using a debug build to see if any errors pop up?
We use the newer HTL Ezechiel so I never really tested the original OTT one, and I haven't got round to the other ship yet. I'm working on the Chrysaor right now.

[RED DIAMOND]

Originally posted by Woomeister


That's 2 years since the last release, it's been almost 5 overall

Bows head in shame

Originally posted by Woomeister

If your using the INFR1 SCP, extract the tables and add the ships to it that way. Since there's no planned patches for R1 you don't really need to worry about modular tables for R1.
As for the problems make sure you've copied over all the maps each ship requires into the data\maps directory, and if you still want to use modular tables make sure the filename ends with -shp.tbm.
If your using a recent SCP build have you tried using a debug build to see if any errors pop up?We use the newer HTL Ezechiel so I never really tested the original OTT one, and I haven't got round to the other ship yet. I'm working on the Chrysaor right now.

Going to try it with the SCP patch. Guess I should have done that in the first place. duh!  

One thing when you say the newer HTL Ezechiel what do ya mean mate??

BTW, never could get the weapons to fire on the Chrysaor bird:confused:

[Woomeister]

Originally posted by RED DIAMOND
One thing when you say the newer HTL Ezechiel what do ya mean mate??

This one:

Originally posted by RED DIAMOND
BTW, never could get the weapons to fire on the Chrysaor bird:confused:

Well I've rebuilt that ship from the ground up. It's now only 1.5km instead of of 2.6 and has better tiling.
I need to build new weapons for it though.

[RED DIAMOND]

Originally posted by Woomeister

This one:

OMG:jaw: That is just AMAZING texture map work mate.
"Anything" I could do would look like and embarassment compared to that baby. Wow, I just can't believe how much better and realistic you made that standard black matte look.
I think I might as well just wait since you are so close to completion and my ships suck eggs compared to that puppy:D

[Trivial Psychic]

Actually, the importanting thing about the HTL Ezechiel isn't its textures, its the modeling.  When people say that someting is an HTL model, it means that its hi-poly.  Nico made this hi-poly Ezechiel about a year ago and has significantly more modeled detail than the early pof, plus it has a fully modeled cockpit.

[Woomeister]

The first ship to be packaged up, the SF Chimera from Release 1. Now has improved maps.