[Taristin]

I actually have a jean michelle jarre song... >.>

But Sigur Ros, they make what they like, and I think it rocks.

[Unknown Target]

Originally posted by Ford Prefect

Anyone serious about his/her art wants it to be popular. If they say otherwise, they're probably lying. I don't buy into the romantic notion of "pure" art, free of commercial influence. The artists I do like had major record deals. Big band jazz was the pop music of its own time, Debussy was stylish in salons in the 1900s. I don't care about that. It just happens that the direction of popular musical style since the middle of the century has been one that I find distasteful.

Flipside refutes this pretty much the same way I would've. Every artist wants to be liked, true, but the pop bands that blast that crap that sounds the exact same as the twenty thousand other bands in the business make music for other people to like them. Artists who are daring enough to make unique music (some fail, some succeed), make music that they themselves like, and only coincidentally other people may or may not like. Yes, they want them to like them, but the good bands won't change what they're doing so that they will.


And that (last sentence) is your opinion, not others, so it is not necessarily true.

[Scuddie]

Deftones is living proof of that.  Save from their latest album.

[pyro-manic]

I don't really care. He's a disturbed child in the body of a middle-aged man - that's bound to lead to some weird sh*t...

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by pyro-manic
I don't really care. He's a disturbed child in the body of a middle-aged man - that's bound to lead to some weird sh*t...

The wierder **** happened when the disturbed middle aged man was in the body of a child...............

ALLEGEDLY

Spoiler:

Don't sue me! Don't sue me! Don't sue me! Don't sue me! Don't sue me! Don't sue me! Don't sue me! Don't sue me!

[Clave]

I don't care that he was found not guilty - It doesn't mean he's innocent...

Also he weighs 6 1/2 stone, and looks like this:



I wouldn't let a child within 10 miles of a freakish ghoul like that!

[aldo_14]

He was in far better shape in the 80s, to be fair.

[TrashMan]

LOL.....

[Ford Prefect]

And that (last sentence) is your opinion, not others, so it is not necessarily true.

Of course it's my opinion. This whole line of discourse is about our opinions. Who said any of this had anything to do with fact?

As for artistic integrity, think about the objective of art in the first place: communication. An artist, whether it is a writer, painter, musician, or whatever, creates out of an extremely powerful desire to communicate thoughts or emotions to the general public. Now, as I implied before, most artists will never admit that this is part of their thought process, because it doesn't fit with the rosey view of art as something rebellious and refreshing. But I think it's inevitable that anyone who is creating a work of art thinks, on some level, about how the work can be adjusted to make it more appealing to the audience, thus creating a wider channel for its intended message, (which rarely survives the journey from the artist to the viewer intact anyway.)

[Bobboau]

Originally posted by Black Wolf



Metallica started in the eighties. Crowded House started in the 80s REM started in the 80s. Pantera. U2. Bon Jovi. Guns 'n Roses. Motley Crue. So many more.

Not to mention all the ... music that came out of established bands like ACDC, Led Zep, Aerosmith, Kiss, Black Sabbath, Cold Chisel.

with the posable exeption of REM, what was your point?

the only good thing to come out of the 80s was the 90s, and even that was just sort of ok.

[Scuddie]

Bob, I am astonished at you.  How could you say the best that came of the 80s was the 90s?  The 80s had the worst music, movies, culture, etc true, but it also had just as much of the best music, movies, culture, etc.  In the 90s, there weren't many bad things, but the same goes for the good.  The 80s was about contrast, the 90s about mediocrity.  And I'd much rather live thru a series of ups and downs than a lifeless and non-changing existance based solely on vanity.  Face it, the 90s sucked.

[Unknown Target]

Originally posted by Ford Prefect

Of course it's my opinion. This whole line of discourse is about our opinions. Who said any of this had anything to do with fact?

A) Earlier you stated it as fact, and B) I was more or less conceding to your point because I didn't want to argue.

As for artistic integrity, think about the objective of art in the first place: communication. An artist, whether it is a writer, painter, musician, or whatever, creates out of an extremely powerful desire to communicate thoughts or emotions to the general public. Now, as I implied before, most artists will never admit that this is part of their thought process, because it doesn't fit with the rosey view of art as something rebellious and refreshing. But I think it's inevitable that anyone who is creating a work of art thinks, on some level, about how the work can be adjusted to make it more appealing to the audience, thus creating a wider channel for its intended message, (which rarely survives the journey from the artist to the viewer intact anyway.)

A lot of "true" artists don't do that. For instance, to take a music standpoint: Nightwish made the music they wanted. Half the people hated it, half the people loved it. Now, if they were simply going straight for money, then they would have modified their music so that they could maybe get more of the hating crowd. But they didn't, and stuck to their original music.
(Now, I'm not saying anything about Nightwish's actual objetives, it's just that out of all the bands I listen to, I know the most about them, and that's what it seems like to me).
Example from the world of art: Take any controversial art show. Pick an artist that is constantly controversial. There you have an artit that will not compromise what he does so that it is well liked. And I guarantee you, you will find more than four of those artists in an eight artist showcase.

[Ford Prefect]

I didn't state anything as fact; I omitted qualifiers because people don't place "I think" in front of every opinion they express. It's tedious.

Like I said, the intentions very often don't carry over to the viewer's interpretation. Just because an artist wants a work to be popular doesn't mean it will be. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that every musician is a slave of the Great Unwashed, simply that the artistic impulse is a desire to be appreciated, and thus nobody who creates art truly "does his own thing". It also depends on the target audience. An artist may only care about a certain subculture or demographic group.

[Unknown Target]

Oh whatever. I'm not going to start an argument over something as stupid as what way you said something or another.
Anyway, all artists I know (including myself) desire to be appreciated, but true artists create art based on themselves, and only incidentaly to be appreciated by others.

[Ford Prefect]

Anyway, all artists I know (including myself) desire to be appreciated, but true artists create art based on themselves, and only incidentaly to be appreciated by others.

They're lying. Not to other people-- they're lying to themselves. Not that that's a problem; everyone lies to maintain a coherent image. I'm a writer, and I do it, I'm sure. Of course, people lie about lying too. We all live in bubbles of contrived reality. Makes the world go 'round.

[Flipside]

Originally posted by Bobboau


with the posable exeption of REM, what was your point?

the only good thing to come out of the 80s was the 90s, and even that was just sort of ok.

I thought most of the HLPers came from the 80's?

Funny thing is, in the 80's they were calling the 70's the 'decade that taste forgot', now, in the 2000's we are doing more or less the same thing to the 80's. And I can promise that within 10 years there will be an 80's revival, just as there have been 50's, 60's and 70's revival, and then suddenly it'll all be trendy again. Such is the fickle nature of fashion

[Ford Prefect]

That's why it's better to hate them all.