[Admiral LSD]

Originally posted by Turnsky
what kinda ram in it?.. those boards only take dual channel ram(meaning two sticks of the same type)..

They don't force you to employ dual channel RAM, I ran a single 256Mb stick on my old 8RDA+ for months before ponying up the cash for a pair of 512s (which weren't an expensive matched pair kit either, just a relatively cheap pair of Hynix 512Mb PC3200 DIMMs) . If you only have one stick, utilise different size sticks or employ the third DIMM slot then it should fall back to single channel mode.

[redsniper]

I tried a bare startup. It incorrectly displayed the cpu info (as 1250 Mhz) and counted the RAM, the count didn't start over though, it went to a blank screen and started the restart loop again but faster since it wasn't checking all the drives, the only way I could tell it was restarting was because the lights on the front of my case flickered each time it restarted.

[Admiral LSD]

The common cause of incorrect CPU speed is an incorrect FSB setting. Did you put it back to 133/166 after trying 100Mhz earlier?

[redsniper]

no, but it displayed it incorrectly a few times before I switched the FSB.

[Scuddie]

Let your memory count up three times.  It is common practice for the boards to identify the memory over three passes for verification purposes.  Also, your 1250MHz reading is definately correct.  You have a 2800+, which uses an internal multiplier of 12.5, and you are currently running at 100MHz FSB.  100MHz * 12.5 = 1250MHz.

The fact that you are able to view POST status for a while, then looping reboots, and finally no POST indicates that you definately have a heating problem.  I suggest checking all the contacts and definately replace the stock heatsync on the northbridge with a real chipset cooler.  Copper and a ballbearing fan are a must.  And put some arctic silver on it too.  Also replacing your heatsync fan on your CPU is a good idea, it may not even be transfering heat effectively right now.

Anyway, keep us posted.

EDIT:  Take out the DIMM in the Dual channel slot.  Dual channel setup cannot exist with an odd number of DIMMs, except in mixed mode, and mixed mode is very unreliable.  That could also be your problem.

[Flipside]

I'll certainly agree with the CPU Fan thing, it's actually made a world of difference by putting an Akasa BB Fan/heatsink to replace the generic cheapy one that came with the computer

[redsniper]

well, I got the AMD Processor in a Box package deal, where you get the chip itself and a heatsink with a fan attached. Screwing around with thermal paste isn't an option though. My particular cpu has a ceramic thing poking out the top which lines up with a pad of phase-changeing material on the bottom of the heatsink. When it gets hot, the stuff sort of melts to seal with the ceramic die. It's explained in some document I managed to scare up on AMD's site. I'll see if I can find it. Anyway, this means I can't just go buy any heatsink and slap it on there. Besides if all these problems are being caused by heat damage isn't it already to late for my cpu/mobo? I don't see how better cooling will fix anything if they're already damaged.
EDIT: Oh, and it wouldn't boot from the Windows CD. Also strangely enough, the HD activity light was blinking even though both HDs were unplugged.

[Admiral LSD]

Yep, sounds like the stock HSF to me...

You're not forced to use those, it's quite possible to use aftermarket heatsinks - I have them on two of the three Athlon boxen I've built/I'm building right now. AMD don't exactly recommend it because aftermarket HSFs typically mean thermal paste and they're worried the stuff will "pump out" from under the HSF due to constant heating and cooling. However, with Arctic Silver 5 the swing has to be pretty extreme before it'll hapen.

[redsniper]

One of us isn't understanding, probably me. Anyway, my cpu connects to the heatsink in a weird way. Here's a picture to illustrate:

Here's the official AMD stuff as well:
http://search.amd.com/query.html?qt=thermal+paste&charset=utf-8&qp=&qs=%7C+language%3Aen&la=en&lap=en&qm=1&tqmhak=0&ct=1325960345&oq=phase+change&rq=1
1st result on this link^
but maybe I'm mistaken and you're just saying I should put thermal paste on really really thick?

[Admiral LSD]

To my knowledge, all Socket A Athlons are manufactured like what you describe with the CPU core directly underneath a piece of ceramic. They're built this way to get the core as close as possible the the heatsink surface to make the transfer of heat from the core to the heatsink more efficient.

All Athlon heatsinks, regardless of where they came from or who made them, only make contact with that ceramic block. When replacing the stock heatsink with an aftermarket one, you only have to put thermal grease on the CPU core. If you try and put it anywhere else not only will it not make contact with the hsf unless you lather it on really thick but if you're using something like Arctic Silver, which is slightly conductive, then you'll wreak havoc with all those little bridges on the top of the chip.

This is why AMD only recommend you use the phase change pads they put on the bottom of the stock HSFs: If you use something like Arctic Silver and subject the chip to massive swings in temperature, there's a chance the grease can be "pumped out" from under the HSF, possibly shorting out the bridges in the process. According to Arctic Silver, this only happens with temperature regularly gets above 100 degrees C making the chances of this occuring pretty slim for most people - at least according to them. I must say though that I've been using Arctic Silver for a couple of years now on various CPUs and I haven't noticed anything amiss yet.

If you're going to try replacing the HSF then there's one thing you need to know: due to the design of the chip packaging and the way the HSFs mount onto the socket a lot of pressure get exerted onto that piece of ceramic. If you're not careful in fitting the new HSF then it's possible to break the ceramic and effectively destroying your chip. There are a number of ways to avoid this but the simplest and cheapest is just to be careful. Take your time and if it doesn't fit right or you need to put a large amount of pressure on it (it's normal to have to put a bit of pressure on) then stop, take it apart and check you're not doing something stupid like putting the hsf on the wrong way (most have a lip that fits a part of the socket meaning they only go on one way). I've installed/replaced the HSFs on my Athlons here over half a dozen times and haven't broken a core yet.

[FireCrack]

man, i hate those stock heatskinks and the way you have to push that clip down with a screwdriver.

[Scuddie]

The phase change pads are designed to be that thick to enforce exactly what they are for, padding.  In reality the pads are VERY compressed and that's one of the only reasons they conduct heat.   Arctic silver, ofcourse, is not that way.  You are supposed to use no more than 0.015 inches thick across the die.  In layman's terms, a very small coating.  You apply the bare heatsync (a REAL one with no paste or pads) onto the die, and clip it down.  The compounds will do the rest.  Over the course of a couple hundred hours of normal use, the bond becomes fully stabilized.  The end result is equivelant to figure 1 of your MSPaint diagram.

The chipset cooler is an entirely different story.  the entire surface of the chip heats up.  There is no die, per se, but the surface area is where heat is dissipated.  Most of the time, replacing the chipset cooler requires removing your motherboard from the case, and undoing the mount devices on the back.  Fairly simple if you know what you're doing.  Once you have a copper cooler with a fan, paste or padding (doesn't matter which) is applied to the entire northbridge chip face, and you attach the cooler the same way you detached the passive sync.  It would be equivalent to figure 2 of your MSPaint diagram.

And that's really all there is.  Read up more on it here.
http://www.arcticsilver.com/as5.htm

EDIT:  Damn you admiral, you beat me to it.

[Admiral LSD]

Originally posted by FireCrack
man, i hate those stock heatskinks and the way you have to push that clip down with a screwdriver.

It's not just the stockies, a lot of aftermarket ones do that too. It's a bit unsettling knowing that one slip and you'll give your motherboard a new mounting hole but if you take your time and do it slowly then there's little to worry about.

[redsniper]

Aha! thank you very much for enlightening me. I didn't realize the paste would only go on the die. However, if my cpu and/or northbridge is already heat damaged isn't it too late to put better cooling on them? Shouldn't I have to replace them now?

[Scuddie]

If your northbridge is permanently damaged (VERY unlikely), then you have no choice but to get a new motherboard for Athlon CPUs.  A replacement A7N8X-e will do well.

As for the CPU, it is very likely that it is permanently damaged if heating was the cause.  The extent of that damage depends on how it may have been overheated to begin with.  For instance, if the processor was caught in an infinite loop, and the safety precautions did not take hold, it may never operate reliably again.  Whereas if something caught the fan blade, and heat wasn't dissipated fast enough due to no airflow, and the CPU wasn't stuck, the damage may be negligible.  It really all depends on the circumstance.

Anyway, before doing anything, did you remove the dual channel DIMM as I told you before?  It may be something as simple as that.

[redsniper]

:doh: forgot to check the DIMM but I'll do that. As for how things could have overheated, our air conditioner has been broken, it's summer in Texas, and my computer has always run a little hot.

[redsniper]

Well... I just got off the phone with a professional computer repair guy who I got to investigate this. It turns out my mobo is totally buggered and my video card might be messed up as well. I suppose this might be a good excuse to upgrade though.

[Flipside]

Hmmmmmmmm... Careful of phone repairs, he might mean the best, but unless someone is there actually hands-on looking at it, I'd be prepared to keep bashing at it for a little while.

Slightly OT, but I replaced the CPU fan a couple of days ago, only to find that so much thermal grease had been put on the CPU it had formed a suction seal which meant that as I lifted the heatsink, the CPU came with it, seeing a 3Ghz CPU stuck to the bottom of your heatsink withj a couple of bent pins is not very good for the heart. Fortunately, I managed to fix it with a wooden toothpick , some brute force and a lot of expletives

[redsniper]

I wasn't very clear about that. My computer is at the guy's shop and he's been checking it out. I just called him to ask what he had found out.

[StratComm]

Originally posted by Flipside
Slightly OT, but I replaced the CPU fan a couple of days ago, only to find that so much thermal grease had been put on the CPU it had formed a suction seal which meant that as I lifted the heatsink, the CPU came with it, seeing a 3Ghz CPU stuck to the bottom of your heatsink withj a couple of bent pins is not very good for the heart. Fortunately, I managed to fix it with a wooden toothpick , some brute force and a lot of expletives

I did that once (thankfully it was on a company machine that was due for other repairs).  It actually isn't at all uncommon to have the thermal grease bind to the chip more tightly than the housing will hold on to the pins; a lot of service techs expect that to happen.