Poll

How do you like your campaigns?

Whole - complete, in their full goodness, all at once!
16 (45.7%)
Piecemeal - I don't mind playing now and again.
11 (31.4%)
What's a campaign? Is it that stuff you drink on new years?
0 (0%)
I love smurfs almost as much as I love My Little Pony
8 (22.9%)

Total Members Voted: 34

Voting closed: July 11, 2005, 01:41:23 am

Author Topic: Campaigns: Whole or piecemeal?  (Read 7025 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Mongoose

  • Rikki-Tikki-Tavi
  • Global Moderator
  • 212
  • This brain for rent.
    • Steam
    • Something
Campaigns: Whole or piecemeal?
Whole campaigns for me.  Whether it's in books, TV shows, movies, or FS2, there's nothing worse for me than reaching an intense part of the storyline and realizing that I'll have to wait several months for it to continue. :p

  

Offline Ghost

  • 29
    • whoopdidoo
Campaigns: Whole or piecemeal?
Snuffleupagus! :D

Seriously, I don't mind either way. Although what Mongoose said does have some weight to it... Nevermind. I say whole campaigns, so I don't get all excited and then have to wait some more.
Wh00t!? Vinyl? Is it like an I-pod 2 or something?

[/sarcasm]

-KappaWing

The Greatest Game in Existance

 

Offline aldo_14

  • Gunnery Control
  • 213
Campaigns: Whole or piecemeal?
Whole.

I think piecemeal carries a risk of storyline compromise in order to 'balance' the episodic content.  Especially if you want to have each part telling a complete (to a degree) storyline; IMO it's better to have subtle strands running through the entire campaign, than to break it into defined episodes.

 

Offline TopAce

  • Stalwart contributor
  • 212
  • FREDder, FSWiki editor, and tester
Campaigns: Whole or piecemeal?
Not to mention when you realise you left some plot holes in missions you have already released. :)
My community contributions - Get my campaigns from here.

I already announced my retirement twice, yet here I am. If I bring up that topic again, don't believe a word.

 

Offline Gai Daigoji

  • Gekigangar!
  • 28
    • http://www.freewebs.com/neo-terra
Campaigns: Whole or piecemeal?
Quote
I love smurfs almost as much as I love My Little Pony


 ;7

(Yes I voted for the above one, but really I like things to be bought out as a whole rather than in different chapters)
Freespace 2: Neo-Terra - My Freespace 2 website that holds my completed FS2 campaigns.

Darkness Rising - Current campaign I'm working on.

Mission Designer for the Wing Commander Saga.

CURRENT PROJECT: Darkness Rising, WCS
COMPLETED PROJECTS: Neo-Terra, Unification Prequel, Solar Wars Chapter 1, Deep Blood, Return to Neo-Terra (Part 1).

 

Offline karajorma

  • King Louie - Jungle VIP
  • Administrator
  • 214
    • Karajorma's Freespace FAQ
Campaigns: Whole or piecemeal?
Yeah but there is a danger in waiting for that. I spent 6-7 months trying to write the entire plotline for TMA down before starting work on SoR so as to avoid plot holes. In the end I gave up cause I was getting nowhere fast with either! :)
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 

Offline TopAce

  • Stalwart contributor
  • 212
  • FREDder, FSWiki editor, and tester
Campaigns: Whole or piecemeal?
And I failed to give you any useful advice on it. :blah:
My community contributions - Get my campaigns from here.

I already announced my retirement twice, yet here I am. If I bring up that topic again, don't believe a word.

 
Campaigns: Whole or piecemeal?
Why does a chapter have to be complete? If I were to release my campaign in chapters, which I probably will, there'll be unanswered questions and plot holes all over the place. My campaign is already more or less divided into 4 arcs, so it seems like a good division for chapters as well.  Each arc will certainly have a different focus to it, but that doesn't mean there can't be a variety of story threads throughout.

At the end of each my chapters, nothing will be resolved, quite the opposite in fact as each leaves the player with a big dilemma. Save for the last chapter of course, but that goes without saying.

 

Offline TopAce

  • Stalwart contributor
  • 212
  • FREDder, FSWiki editor, and tester
Campaigns: Whole or piecemeal?
And what if the two chapters contradict each other because of a plot-design mistake you made?
My community contributions - Get my campaigns from here.

I already announced my retirement twice, yet here I am. If I bring up that topic again, don't believe a word.

 

Offline karajorma

  • King Louie - Jungle VIP
  • Administrator
  • 214
    • Karajorma's Freespace FAQ
Campaigns: Whole or piecemeal?
That's the problem with piecemeal campaigns. You write 2-3 chapters and then realise that you could have a really cool mission if only you hadn't done some tiny little thing in the first chapter.

Of course you can just Lucas the earlier chapters.
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 

Offline Nuclear1

  • 211
Campaigns: Whole or piecemeal?
Quote
Originally posted by TopAce
And what if the two chapters contradict each other because of a plot-design mistake you made?


That's why piecemeal campaigns tend to require the most thought and work, and therefore, tend to be very rewarding once they are released (if done properly).

In this case, it leads me to think that maybe releasing a good campaign in chapters actually may take longer than releasing it in whole. It takes longer to check the plot, characters, etc. to ensure continuity, and, if you are aiming for well-designed missions, it may simply add onto the load.

As for the length of the chapters, I don't believe that they have to be in any way short. If a campaign is too long to do in whole, then it would seem appropriate to break it into chapters; but unless you have a very good reason, it seems like a waste to only do less than ten missions per chapter; if you only have a few chapters, than you can easily combine them into one major campaign.

Of course, when I said "very good reason" above, I mean things along the lines of shifting viewpoints/change-of-characters-or-factions. I know a couple of campaigns in development that act this way (Inferno, I believe; then there's my own and Divided Terrans). Sometimes a story is far too grand or epic to be told simply from one point of view or in one campaign, and it may need to be divided up. GTI, for example, divides up the story among the many different factions of the day, namely the GTA, GTI, and PVN, but with some rising powers as well. I think that Divided Terrans operates in a similar way, and maybe Inferno as well (someone may want to check my facts here; I really haven't checked out Inferno for a long time).

Back to lengths of campaigns, I see no reason why a chapter should be in any way "short". Like I said before, less than ten missions in a few-chapter campaign is lame, unless you have the situation above, which is then still lame, as you will have to try to tell your story in less than forty missions, all the while shifting through viewpoints. I don't know how long Inferno Chap. 1 was, but I know that GTI Rebellion plans to have upwards of thirty missions in Chapter 1 alone. Combine this with the five chapters planned, the total is well over 150 missions.

Now, tell me: would you prefer waiting years for (well-thought-out and designed) 150 missions with mods and mods and mods galore and music, all in one major download, or would you prefer ~30 missions at a time, with mods that you can keep around for the next chapters and not worry with downloading again?

[/massive p1mp]

If there's one reason that GTI is taking so long in development, it is simply because of the storyline; I have the ideas in my head, and the staff and myself are currently hammering it out in a fine-tuned campaign, but there still a number of things that need work on. The next chapters need to have their storylines updated frequently to adapt to whatever last-minute changes get made to Chapter 1, which, needless to say, is a workload in itself.

Quote
That's the problem with piecemeal campaigns. You write 2-3 chapters and then realise that you could have a really cool mission if only you hadn't done some tiny little thing in the first chapter.


That is a problem indeed, and I'll say that I've run across it a few times in GTI. The staff will start working, and then I'll have an incredible idea, and then have to update the outlines again.




So, anyway, I voted piecemal. :nervous:
« Last Edit: July 15, 2005, 08:57:09 am by 673 »
Spoon - I stand in awe by your flawless fredding. Truely, never before have I witnessed such magnificant display of beamz.
Axem -  I don't know what I'll do with my life now. Maybe I'll become a Nun, or take up Macrame. But where ever I go... I will remember you!
Axem - Sorry to post again when I said I was leaving for good, but something was nagging me. I don't want to say it in a way that shames the campaign but I think we can all agree it is actually.. incomplete. It is missing... Voice Acting.
Quanto - I for one would love to lend my beautiful singing voice into this wholesome project.
Nuclear1 - I want a duet.
AndrewofDoom - Make it a trio!

 
Campaigns: Whole or piecemeal?
Quote
Originally posted by TopAce
And what if the two chapters contradict each other because of a plot-design mistake you made?


    Well I've already got each mission down with a brief outline, I don't see how they could contradict one another. And I certainly wouldn't just abandon the earlier chapters, I'd still be looking at them to make sure everything worked together. The finer details will of course need some work, but that's to be expected.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

  • I reject your reality and substitute my own
  • 213
  • Syndral Active. 0410.
Campaigns: Whole or piecemeal?
A good memory is adequate defense against contradicting yourself most of the time...
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline TopAce

  • Stalwart contributor
  • 212
  • FREDder, FSWiki editor, and tester
Campaigns: Whole or piecemeal?
Quote
Originally posted by Akalabeth Angel
...And I certainly wouldn't just abandon the earlier chapters, ...


Quote the line in my post which suggested you to abandon your project. :doubt:
My community contributions - Get my campaigns from here.

I already announced my retirement twice, yet here I am. If I bring up that topic again, don't believe a word.

 
Campaigns: Whole or piecemeal?
Quote
Originally posted by TopAce


Quote the line in my post which suggested you to abandon your project. :doubt:


    No dude, what I mean to say is that once I'm done with the earlier chapters, I'll still look at them. I won't just say "well, that's finished, to heck with it" or not play it or something. So since I'll be looking at them, I can see if the continuity is working or not . . . in theory anyway.

 

Offline Ransom

  • M. Night Russel
  • 210
  • It will not wait.
    • Rate of Injury
Campaigns: Whole or piecemeal?
I'd have to say I prefer piecemeal, mainly because cliffhangers are awesome.

 

Offline TrashMan

  • T-tower Avenger. srsly.
  • 213
  • God-Emperor of your kind!
    • FLAMES OF WAR
Campaigns: Whole or piecemeal?
When making chapters the ponly way you can possibly contradict yourself is if:

a) You make all chapters at the roughly smae time or ina strange order
b) you have a poor overwiev of what happened in the previous chapter.

I'm making my campaign in chapters, but tehy are chronological in order, and I do little (modeling mostly) to no work on chapter 2 or 3 untill I finish chapter 1.
Sure, I do have 2&3 in some basic outlines, but the real work will start once 1 is out of the way. This way a single chapter get practicly all my focus.
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!