[BlueFlames]

Yesterday, I was playing Second Front*, and I was noticing a couple of rather critical bugs that nobody had ever informed me of...

The first one, I thought was just me imagining things.  I knew that I had beefed up the subsystem damage multiplier for cyclops torpedos, but while disabling the destroyers in the fifth mission, they seemed pitifully weak.

At the same time, I noticed that the lead destroyer** wasn't putting out as much anti-fighter fire as I had been expecting.  At that moment, I was the player, not the designer, so I wasn't going to argue with the lack of flak, while those damnable manticores were bearing down on me.

It was the third bug, in the last mission that finally drove the point through my thick skull.  When I was making the mission, since I knew I was already going to put in a modified ships table, I duplicated the GVFr Satis' entry and corrected the designation to GVT Satis, and proceeded to use the corrected ship in the final mission.  (If I hadn't been including the modified ships table, I would have used the alternate name field in FRED's ship editor.)  This time through, instead of seeing a GVT Satis class transport warp in, I was greeted by a GTF Ulysses fighter, sans shields.

Now, I've checked the \data\tables directory, and that is empty, as it should be, so I'm thinking that I've gotten confused somewhere about the order in which FS2 prioritizes table files.  I thought it was tables in the [table directory] override tables in the [campaign-specific *.vp file] override tables in [root_fs2.vp].  Was I wrong†, or has my specific copy of FS2 found a new and exciting way to irritate the hell out of me?

Ah, this is all in the retail version of FS2††.

* -- Yes, it's my own campaign.  Yes, I'm egomaniacal.  Piss off, if you don't like it.
** -- I'm trying not to spoil the campaign too much for those who haven't played it yet.
† -- If I was wrong, would the order look more like:  tables in the [table directory] override tables in [any *.vp file]?  If not, please correct me.
†† -- Before you bug me, I'll probably be downloading the SCP before the week is out.  Just wanted to give the game another run through, unmodified, so I'd be suitably awed after the transition.

[knn]

Change the name of the campaign specific .vp file to aa_originalname.vp. IIRC, the vp with a name that`s before the other vp`s name in the alphabet overrides the other vp. It may be the other way round, though

[BlueFlames]

Alright, I've three *.vp files with table files in them:  root_fs2.vp (duh), demo.vp (the FS2 demo files), and SecFront.vp (the one I'm trying to have override the others).

Alphabetizing setting the priority made some degree of sense, so I tried it first with a_SecFront.vp.  No dice.  Then I tried e_SecFront.vp, to put it in the middle.  It makes no sense to try that, and it still didn't work.  SecFront.vp without a prefix was last in alphabetical order to begin with, and that's what spawned the first post.

[knn]

Hmmm... the media_vp-s and the inferno vp are all before root.vp,  so doing that should`ve worked. I remember having a similar problem: there was ships.tbl in the Data folder It seems that the Data folder precedes Data\Tables. I dunno if any other folder that FS2 reads data from works too, but things like Data\Tablesold and such don`t. See if you have any other ships.tbl in Data

[BlueFlames]

*Ahem*

Now, I've checked the \data\tables directory, and that is empty, as it should be...

It's a fresh installation (patched to 1.2), so the only custom content I have is a few missions, the demo campaign, and the Second Front campaign.

[karajorma]

Extract the table files with VPView. Stick them in Freespace2\Data\Tables and try again. That will at least make certain that there is nothing wrong with your tables.

BTW IIRC a table file in \Freespace2 takes precidence over everything. Check there and \Data for rogues.

[knn]

Originally posted by BlueFlames
*Ahem*




It's a fresh installation (patched to 1.2), so the only custom content I have is a few missions, the demo campaign, and the Second Front campaign.

Umm, I said check the Freespace2\Data folder, not the Freespace2\Data\Tables folder.

[BlueFlames]

The custom tables work when not packaged in a *.vp file, and both the \data and root FS2 directory do not have any seperate tables floating about.

Apologies if I'm coming off as indignant.  It just seems like I'm never finished debugging this campaign, and this is a rather major bug.

[karajorma]

Okay. That means that somewhere you have a table which is higher priority than the one in your VP file but not higher than the lose one.

(Either that or the VP contains the wrong table. That's impossible if you extracted the working tables directly from the VP but possible if you simply copied them from elsewhere.

Try removing the demo.vp file. I'm not familiar with that one so I can't tell if it's interfearing somehow.

[knn]

And they don`t work when packaged in a *.vp? Strange
Try removing root.vp and the demo vp and putting your vp back, that`s the best I can suggest. Since it`s a fresh install, the problem seems to be in your vp. BTW, does the vp have a directory structure in it? Just in case

[karajorma]

I really wouldn'r reccomend removing root_fs2.vp.

[knn]

Originally posted by karajorma
I really wouldn'r reccomend removing root_fs2.vp.

Oh, yeah, you`re right, FS2 needs it, I remember TBP made a dummy root_FS2.vp, you could try that BlueFlames (empty dummy.txt in root_FS2.vp)

[BlueFlames]

Right, so you know that bit where I renamed the SecFront.vp file to give it alphabetical priority?  Well, I renamed SecFront.vpp, as in the uncompiled *.vp project file, not the campaign's actual *.vp archive.  Upon renaming the correct file to give it alphabetical priority, the modified ships and weapons loaded properly.

So....  Anyone who needs my street address, so they know where they can come to slap me silly, just drop me an e-mail.

[knn]

Originally posted by BlueFlames
Right, so you know that bit where I renamed the SecFront.vp file to give it alphabetical priority?  Well, I renamed SecFront.vpp, as in the uncompiled *.vp project file, not the campaign's actual *.vp archive.  Upon renaming the correct file to give it alphabetical priority, the modified ships and weapons loaded properly.

So....  Anyone who needs my street address, so they know where they can come to slap me silly, just drop me an e-mail.

It`s ok... It took me 3 months to figure out why my OpenGL program didn`t display a texture (OK, so i wasn`t working on it all the time)

[Cobra]

I think i know what your problem is. For whatever reason, most of the bomber missions use a typo called Cyclops#short which is the same bomb, but much weaker. And it never shows up as Cyclops#short in-game unless you force load it.

[Taristin]

's not a typo. It's another table entry. It has a shorter, lock on time, I think, or range. not sure. but it's a balance issue.

[knn]

Originally posted by Cobra
I think i know what your problem is. For whatever reason, most of the bomber missions use a typo called Cyclops#short which is the same bomb, but much weaker. And it never shows up as Cyclops#short in-game unless you force load it.

 What are you talking about?

[Cobra]

Code: [Select]

$Name: Cyclops
+Title: XSTR("GTM-12 Cyclops", 3381)
+Description:
XSTR(
"Special Issue
Anti-Cruiser Bomb
Non-Conventional Warhead
", 3382)
$end_multi_text
+Tech Title: XSTR("GTM-12 Cyclops", 3383)
+Tech Anim: Tech_Cyclops
+Tech Description:
XSTR(
"The GTM-12 Cyclops has been in service for over 15 years in the GTVA arsenal. It is the standard ultra-high-delivery Secondary weapon loadout, utilizing the latest in aspect-seeking guidance technologies. The Cyclops has the distinction of being the most consistently upgraded weapon in the fleet. Although its development began shortly after the Great War ended, its excellent performance has kept it firmly entrenched in the role of main assault weapon. Its payload is approximately fifty percent greater than that of the older Tsunami warheads.", 3384)
$end_multi_text
$Model File: belial.pof
$Mass: 25.0
$Velocity: 95.0
$Fire Wait: 20.0
;; note, damage toned down until ai and turrets start shooting at bombs.
$Damage: 2000 ;; damage applied when within inner radius
$Blast Force: 1000.0
$Inner Radius: 100.0 ;; radius at which damage is full (0 for impact only)
$Outer Radius: 200.0 ;; max radius for attenuated damage (0 for impact only)
$Shockwave Speed: 80 ;; velocity of shockwave. 0 for none.
$Armor Factor: 1.0
$Shield Factor: 0.02
$Subsystem Factor: 0.5 ;; reduced from 1.0 to 0.5 by MikeK on 8/28/99. Player shooting one down would often blow out player's subsystems.
$Lifetime: 25.0 ;; temporary fix for problem locking onto big ships.
$Energy Consumed: 0.0
$Cargo Size: 15.0
$Homing: YES
    +Type: ASPECT ;; Legal: HEAT, ASPECT
    +Turn Time: 1.0
    +Min Lock Time: 5.0 ;; Minimum lock time (in seconds)
    +Lock Pixels/Sec: 35 ;; Pixels moved per sec while locking
    +Catch-up Pixels/Sec: 70 ;; Pixels moved per sec while catching up
    +Catch-up Penalty: 12 ;; Extra pixels to move after catching up
$LaunchSnd: 96
$ImpactSnd: 88
$FlyBySnd: -1
$Rearm Rate: 0.05
$Flags: ( "Bomb" "Huge" "No Dumbfire" "player allowed")
$Trail: ;; Trail cannot be set if Exhaust is set
    +Start Width: 0.5 ;; Width of trail nearest missile
    +End Width: 1.75 ;; Width of trail before it "evaporates"
    +Start Alpha: 1.0
    +End Alpha: 0.0
    +Max Life: 1.5 ;; how many seconds before trail disappears
    +Bitmap: MissileTrail04 ;; Bitmap used to draw trail

$Icon: iconbelial
$Anim: belial
$Impact Explosion: ExpMissileHit1
$Impact Explosion Radius: 15.0


Code: [Select]

$Name: Cyclops#short
+Title: XSTR("GTM-12 Cyclops", 3385)
+Description:
XSTR(
"Special Issue
Anti-Cruiser Bomb
Non-Conventional Warhead
", 3386)
$end_multi_text
+Tech Title: XSTR("GTM-12 Cyclops", 3387)
+Tech Anim: Tech_Cyclops
+Tech Description:
XSTR(
"The GTM-12 Cyclops has been in service for over 15 years in the GTVA arsenal. It is the standard ultra-high-delivery Secondary weapon loadout, utilizing the latest in aspect-seeking guidance technologies. The Cyclops has the distinction of being the most consistently upgraded weapon in the fleet. Although its development began shortly after the Great War ended, its excellent performance has kept it firmly entrenched in the role of main assault weapon. Its payload is approximately fifty percent greater than that of the older Tsunami warheads.", 3388)
$end_multi_text
$Model File: belial.pof
$Mass: 25.0
$Velocity: 75.0
$Fire Wait: 20.0
;; note, damage toned down until ai and turrets start shooting at bombs.
$Damage: 2000 ;; damage applied when within inner radius
$Blast Force: 1000.0
$Inner Radius: 100.0 ;; radius at which damage is full (0 for impact only)
$Outer Radius: 200.0 ;; max radius for attenuated damage (0 for impact only)
$Shockwave Speed: 80 ;; velocity of shockwave. 0 for none.
$Armor Factor: 1.0
$Shield Factor: 0.02
$Subsystem Factor: 1.0
$Lifetime: 25.0 ;; temporary fix for problem locking onto big ships.
$Energy Consumed: 0.0
$Cargo Size: 15.0
$Homing: YES
    +Type: ASPECT ;; Legal: HEAT, ASPECT
    +Turn Time: 1.0
    +Min Lock Time: 5.0 ;; Minimum lock time (in seconds)
    +Lock Pixels/Sec: 35 ;; Pixels moved per sec while locking
    +Catch-up Pixels/Sec: 70 ;; Pixels moved per sec while catching up
    +Catch-up Penalty: 12 ;; Extra pixels to move after catching up
$LaunchSnd: 96
$ImpactSnd: 88
$FlyBySnd: -1
$Rearm Rate: 0.05
$Flags: ( "Bomb" "Huge" "No Dumbfire" "player allowed")
$Trail: ;; Trail cannot be set if Exhaust is set
    +Start Width: 0.5 ;; Width of trail nearest missile
    +End Width: 1.75 ;; Width of trail before it "evaporates"
    +Start Alpha: 1.0
    +End Alpha: 0.0
    +Max Life: 1.5 ;; how many seconds before trail disappears
    +Bitmap: MissileTrail04 ;; Bitmap used to draw trail

$Icon: iconbelial
$Anim: belial
$Impact Explosion: ExpMissileHit1
$Impact Explosion Radius: 15.0


Well, I think that should give a good explanation for you.

[EDIT]agh, that is the LAST time i use code.

[knn]

I`m not going to read that... but I still don`t get it. What does that have to do with BlueFlames (already solved) problem or the problem with my OpenGL program (also solved)?

[Cobra]

feh. nevermind.