Author Topic: Christian Exodus!  (Read 3138 times)

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Offline Unknown Target

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*glad that others are correcting Trashman because he doesn't really want to*

Anyway, any  progress on this? I'm actually hoping it works. The US is basically the North anyway, the South just exists to give us presidents that screw up our economy.

No, honestly, does anyone else feel like this? When I think of the United States, I think of Chicago, New York, Los Angeles, Baltimore, and Washington DC. I don't think of Houstan, Indianapolis, or Colombus. In fact, the only Southern state that I really actually think of is Florida, and that's because A) it has so many theme parks, and B) because it's so crazy there.

 
Ah, you're referring to the Blue States/Red States Paradox. One of the great things about America is our diversity.  Sure it can be annoying at times when others order a cheese pizza instead of a plain or eat a hero, hoagie, or a submarine sandwich instead of a sub; or when the New Englander goes to a bah, while I go to a bar; but the New Yorker drinks cawfee, and the Southerner drinks coffee; but the Chicagoan drives a care while drinking a bottle of pop, while the San Franciscan drinks soda in a car and thinks their ride is "hella cool," while the Bostonian drinks tonic in a cah and says it's "wicked awesome," and the New Jerseyite goes down the shore, while everyone else goes to the beach, but you wouldn't change it for the world cause you know it'd be pretty boring without those kind of little nuances.

Umm, I just realized this doesn't have much to do with the discussion.

My point is, we may have our differences and disagree with one another's povs, but we still get along...at least until we had Bush. Now, we're practically divided like the Civil War again, because well, he doesn't even try to appease liberals. He's just pissing off all of them and the healing won't begin until he's out.

Btw, tobacco (which is the South's cash crop) is one of our biggest exports, and most of our cotton is grown there, and if you're on the east coast, your peaches come from Georgia.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2005, 12:38:40 pm by 2743 »

 

Offline karajorma

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Originally posted by EtherShock
That's why I fly to Florida Raa.


But man was not meant to fly! The bible says so! The Christian Republic of South Carolina has pledged to shoot down any of these devil machines that enter our airspace!

Just give us a year or two to invent a really big catapault to shoot them down with!
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Offline TrashMan

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Originally posted by aldo_14
If you run a country on purely religious grounds, it's disrespectful and discriminatory against any non-believer who has to live in, enter, or deal with that country.  The individuals right to expression, democracy, etc can be easily negated by citing some appropriate interpretation of the holy book of choice - wars can be justified on the basis of perceived sins, ethnic cleansing on the basis of being against infidels.  Religion can be subverted to create a personality cult for the leader.


any coutry will be crap if it's run by crazy people..
I'm talking normal people... Lok at Vatican for example.

Runing a country on religous grounds and being a total fanatical ass are two completely different things.

Religion can be subvereted gor strange goels, if you have enough crazy people in the population, but so can the democratic principles or any other for that matter.. for instance, the US brining "peace" and "democracy" to the rest of the world... Yeah right.
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Offline delta_7890

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Originally posted by Knight Templar
Furthermore, why is delta looking at Foxnews? :wtf:


I'd originally seen the information for it on ABC World New Tonight, on TV.  <<;  Sadly I did not find a matching article on their website, so I just plucked the quickest result I could find.
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Offline aldo_14

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Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan


any coutry will be crap if it's run by crazy people..
I'm talking normal people... Lok at Vatican for example.

Runing a country on religous grounds and being a total fanatical ass are two completely different things.

Religion can be subvereted gor strange goels, if you have enough crazy people in the population, but so can the democratic principles or any other for that matter.. for instance, the US brining "peace" and "democracy" to the rest of the world... Yeah right.


Firstly, the Vatican isn't a country in the true sense of the word; whilst it's a sovereign state, it doesn't have a true economy - or a population who haven't actively volunteered to be there, or a democratic system of representation, or any issues of borders/border control/self defense... i.e. anyone at the Vatican is either a priest/security (who volunteer there) or a worshipper (who again volunteers and does not live there).

Unless you extend the Vaticans policies to cover that definition of country (i.e. take them as being matters of public policy were the Vatican a true nation), in which case you have serious problems - descrimination against homosexuality, or childless couples (cf the Vaticans call for a boycott on an Italian vote over IVF treatement); not to mention the outright lies perpetrated at times (specifically lies about the efficacy of condoms intended to dissuade their use - including scientifically flawed claims of ineffectuality re: the size of the aids virus and claims holes were poked in condoms at factories).

And lets not forget the notion of papal infallibility - in a real nation state, that would be Stalin-esque.  Because papal decisions are made regarding optional belief, its seen as ok.  But if papal decisions affected everyday life, such as law, free speech, freedom of religion....

  

Offline Kosh

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My point is, we may have our differences and disagree with one another's povs, but we still get along...at least until we had Bush. Now, we're practically divided like the Civil War again, because well, he doesn't even try to appease liberals. He's just pissing off all of them and the healing won't begin until he's out.


It's all about divide and conquer.
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Offline IceFire

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Originally posted by TrashMan
what so wrong with having a 100% christianic country? Or islamic? or jewish one for that matter?

Religion isa integral part of an individual and separation of religion and state kinda doesn't make sense, since if you are a beliver, you are a beliver 100% of the time.. not only at home
You don't hang your beliefs on a hook when you go about working (if you're a giverment officail).

Some people are outright afraid of states based on religion, with no real reason to back that fear. ( bad past experience deosn't really count)

So what exactly is a 100% Christian state?  100% your version of Christianity?  My version?  My next door neighbors version?  The people down the streets version?  What happens if your Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Buhdist, and so on.  Then we get intolerance, discrimination of religion, and so on and so forth.

Religion and state were mostly separated a while ago.  It proved to be a disaster for more than one monarch.  Eventually they were deposed, usually through violent revolution, and the secular states became a reality.
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Offline Kosh

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Religion and state were mostly separated a while ago. It proved to be a disaster for more than one monarch. Eventually they were deposed, usually through violent revolution, and the secular states became a reality.


I hope you mean that they were  NOT seperated and that proved to be a disaster.......
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

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Offline Ace

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Quote
Originally posted by karajorma


But man was not meant to fly! The bible says so! The Christian Republic of South Carolina has pledged to shoot down any of these devil machines that enter our airspace!

Just give us a year or two to invent a really big catapault to shoot them down with!


Word just in: Catapults are devices of devil science too! The first ones were invented by non-christians!

Our new weapon to destroy the air forces of the United States of Satanica will be a crossbow. We can use 'em against non-christians, the Pope said so!
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Offline Nico

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That make you laugh, Ace, but did you know that back then, the Vatican tried to ban crossbows for they were viscious and traitorous weapons?

edit: that's not a joke, btw, it's true.
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Offline Ace

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That's actually why I made the joke about crossbows, you weren't allowed to use them against christians.

But yeh can a-gainst the A-rabs, Satanica, and Only-Jesus-Can-Save-It-rael!
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Offline Nico

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Nah, actually, you were not allowed to use them at all if you were christian. If you were not christian.. well, who cares? if you were not christian, you were ought to be hanged.
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Offline IceFire

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Originally posted by Kosh


I hope you mean that they were  NOT seperated and that proved to be a disaster.......

Yes...they were one and the same.  With the Pope usually having quite a bit of say over the various Catholic states in Europe and we had all sorts of wars and one of the Kings of England started his own Christian religion so he could divorce and all sorts of silly things.

Not that Nationalism did us any better really...
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Offline Clave

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Henry VIII...

And now we have divorce, so you should be thankful. ;)
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Offline Kosh

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And his denomination was just as intolerant as the Catholics......
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

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Offline TrashMan

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Originally posted by aldo_14


Firstly, the Vatican isn't a country in the true sense of the word; whilst it's a sovereign state, it doesn't have a true economy - or a population who haven't actively volunteered to be there, or a democratic system of representation, or any issues of borders/border control/self defense... i.e. anyone at the Vatican is either a priest/security (who volunteer there) or a worshipper (who again volunteers and does not live there).

Unless you extend the Vaticans policies to cover that definition of country (i.e. take them as being matters of public policy were the Vatican a true nation), in which case you have serious problems - descrimination against homosexuality, or childless couples (cf the Vaticans call for a boycott on an Italian vote over IVF treatement); not to mention the outright lies perpetrated at times (specifically lies about the efficacy of condoms intended to dissuade their use - including scientifically flawed claims of ineffectuality re: the size of the aids virus and claims holes were poked in condoms at factories).

And lets not forget the notion of papal infallibility - in a real nation state, that would be Stalin-esque.  Because papal decisions are made regarding optional belief, its seen as ok.  But if papal decisions affected everyday life, such as law, free speech, freedom of religion....


Allright, Vatican isn't a realy good example, but you reallylike extreems don't you.

As for the lies thing - all I heard are rumors and I don't know how much truth is behind that, and neither do you.

As for my reasoning - a country being christian in it's core doesn't imply dicrimination against other religions at all, for attacking someone simply becouse he has a differnt faith is totaly anti-christianic.
I think you misunderstoof what I meant by a christianic country - I certanly didn't mean a land full of religious fanatics that run everything according by the holy book and burn infidels.

I should reallyexplain myself better, but actually a full explanation might take long to write...nad I got to go off-line now.
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Offline aldo_14

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Originally posted by TrashMan


Allright, Vatican isn't a realy good example, but you reallylike extreems don't you.

As for the lies thing - all I heard are rumors and I don't know how much truth is behind that, and neither do you.


It's all factually documented; http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3176982.stm for example

In an interview, one of the Vatican's most senior cardinals Alfonso Lopez Trujillo suggested HIV could even pass through condoms.

"The Aids virus is roughly 450 times smaller than the spermatozoon. The spermatozoon can easily pass through the 'net' that is formed by the condom," he says.

 (snip)

 Catherine Hankins, chief scientific advisor to UNAids, condemned the Church's comments.

"It is very unfortunate to have this type of misinformation being broadcast," she told BBC News Online.

"It is a concern. From a technical point of view, the statements are totally incorrect.

"Latex condoms are impermeable. They do prevent HIV transmission."

The WHO also attacked the Catholic Church's comments.

"Statements like this are quite dangerous, " a spokeswoman told BBC News Online.

"We are facing a global pandemic which has already killed more than 20 million people and currently affects around 42 million.

"There is so much evidence to show that condoms don't let sexually transmitted infections like HIV through.

"Anyone who says otherwise is just wrong."


(specifically; the aids virus cannot be transmitted on own, but within bodily fluid.  The carrier fluid is too large to pass through the latex barrier; it's basic science.  There's an ever worse statement around, but this was the first article I found)

I also forgot to mention the allegations of corruption and mafia involvement in the 'Devils banker' affair.  I believe Archbishop Malinkus was specifically linked with corruption in that case, and the Vatican used diplomatic immunity to protect another Archbishop being investigated by Italian police over it.

Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan

As for my reasoning - a country being christian in it's core doesn't imply dicrimination against other religions at all, for attacking someone simply becouse he has a differnt faith is totaly anti-christianic.
I think you misunderstoof what I meant by a christianic country - I certanly didn't mean a land full of religious fanatics that run everything according by the holy book and burn infidels.

I should reallyexplain myself better, but actually a full explanation might take long to write...nad I got to go off-line now.


If a country is ran based solely upon one holy book or religion, it also explictly means any other religion is viewed as being irrelevant or inferior - that religion needn't necessarily be attacked, but it will not be supported against attack, nor will it be given an equal status with regards to right of religion.  That is instant discrimination right there.

The likes of the Bible are highly open to interpretation and thus personal bias; but are also far less open to dissent once the ruling party or person has made their interpretation into law, because it's easy to make laws against something that's wrong 'because the bible says so'.

(I'm surprised no-one's mentioned the Spanish Inquisition yet, actually)
« Last Edit: July 27, 2005, 07:19:09 am by 181 »

 

Offline Nico

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Originally posted by IceFire

Yes...they were one and the same.  With the Pope usually having quite a bit of say over the various Catholic states in Europe and we had all sorts of wars and one of the Kings of England started his own Christian religion so he could divorce and all sorts of silly things.


It is slightly more complicated than that, both regarding the Vaticans power at this period, and regarding the divorce thing ;) (he could have divorced w/o a chism, you know :D)
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Offline Ford Prefect

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Originally posted by TrashMan
As for my reasoning - a country being christian in it's core doesn't imply dicrimination against other religions at all, for attacking someone simply becouse he has a differnt faith is totaly anti-christianic.
I think you misunderstoof what I meant by a christianic country - I certanly didn't mean a land full of religious fanatics that run everything according by the holy book and burn infidels.

Doesn't matter what the original intent is. You can define a religion however you want, but the actions of its followers speak louder than its scriptures, and fanaticism is an inevitable disease.
"Mais est-ce qu'il ne vient jamais à l'idée de ces gens-là que je peux être 'artificiel' par nature?"  --Maurice Ravel