[wolfdog]

Hm, guess i never really started a topic on this forum....


little insight first:

The European ministers of Justice and the European Commission want to keep all telephone and internet traffic data of all 450 million Europeans.
 
http://www.dataretentionisnosolution.com/

The European Commission has finally produced its draft directive on data retention. According to the Commission, all fixed and mobile telephony traffic and location data from all private and legal persons should be stored for 1 year. Data about communications 'using solely the internet protocol' should be stored for 6 months. The Commission does not provide any argument about the usefulness and necessity of data retention, but considers the directive to be proportionate if providers are reimbursed for 'demonstrated additional costs'. The last compromise achieved by the ministers of Justice and Home Affairs (the JHA Council) to create a two-step approach, starting with telephony data and introducing internet data retention at a later stage, is completely ignored by the Commission.

Everything related (and full article)


Opinions......?

[aldo_14]

I'm sure that domestic courts (in Germany in particular) have already ruled this sort of thing is unfair and illegal..... so why the EU is trying it, I don't know.  It's just wrong, and stupid.

EDIT; http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/07/14/uk_ministers_data_retention/

[SadisticSid]

It's not the EU that is to blame for once, just good old reactionary Labour projecting its agenda on to the European Parliament.

How are telcos are supposed to log EVERY byte of data going through their connections for the last 6 months anyway? 6 months worth of a moderately-sized broadband ISP data would probably come to be on the order of tens of thousands of terrabytes, and that's not even taking into account the inevitable increase in broadband speeds over the next few years. It's completely bonkers.

[Bobboau]

wow, and you guys are freaked out over the patriot act, or ID cards.

[IPAndrews]

Is this another Blunkett special?

[Rictor]

Boo-urns! Is it just me, or has Labour done everything in their power to become the official Orwell fanclub of Europe?

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Bobboau
wow, and you guys are freaked out over the patriot act, or ID cards.

We're freaked out over everything justnow.

[vyper]

Originally posted by Rictor
Boo-urns! Is it just me, or has Labour done everything in their power to become the official Orwell fanclub of Europe?

And with no real political opposition to vote for.

[aldo_14]

El Reg;
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/08/01/data_retention_commission/
[q]The European Commission says it will have a draft directive for data retention laws in Europe on the table by September, but early versions are already circulating among interested parties.

Lobby group European Digital Rights (EDRi), says that according to a draft it has seen, companies will be required to retain telephone data for one year, and internet data for just six months. Both periods are significantly lower than the three years suggested in the proposal, known as a draft Framework Decision, put forward by the UK, with backing from Ireland, Sweden and France.

The European Commission's rival proposal would need the backing of the European Parliament, and the Council of ministers if it is to become law, while the draft Framework Decision only needs the approval of Council of Ministers. However, it has been declared illegal, and MEPs have threatened to take Ministers to the European Courts of Justice, if they continue to push the draft through.

European Commission spokesman Friso Roscam Abbing said that the Commission's proposal would balance the need for data protection with the provision of adequate powers for law enforcement agencies to trace and track communications.

The proposals, which ministers argue will help police track down terrorists after attacks like the ones in Madrid and London, have been described by critics as being a case of putting the solution before the problem. After all, in London, all four suspected (failed) bombers have been apprehended without the need for these data retention laws. Similarly in Madrid, the police investigation did not appear to be hampered by lack of mobile phone data.

Critics, including many MEPs, argue that the proposals from the UK et al. could effectively force companies to breach existing European data protection laws. These state that data may only be retained for as long as is neccessary, except in unusual circumstances.

Indeed, none of the parties behind the draft Framework Decision has yet offered an explanation of why it would be necessary to retain the data. Indeed, Charles Clarke has acknowledged in a speech to MEPs that no case has yet been made for the laws but urged the parliament to press ahead with them regardless. ®[/q]

[wolfdog]

Originally posted by SadisticSid

How are telcos are supposed to log EVERY byte of data going through their connections for the last 6 months anyway? 6 months worth of a moderately-sized broadband ISP data would probably come to be on the order of tens of thousands of terrabytes, and that's not even taking into account the inevitable increase in broadband speeds over the next few years. It's completely bonkers.

It's possible, but it would cost several million euros.

[Roanoke]

Just say the "t" word and people will buy it (or so they seem to think)

[vyper]

They don't have to make anyone buy it because the European parliament is so unaccountable.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Originally posted by Bobboau
wow, and you guys are freaked out over the patriot act, or ID cards.

Echelon, kthnxbye

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Originally posted by vyper
They don't have to make anyone buy it because the European parliament is so unaccountable.

it's the commission, no the parliament.
If you don't like what you're EMP is doing, vote him out. If you can be arsed to vote at all

[Kosh]

I wonder what the REAL reason behind them proposing this. Tracking and logging that much data would be quite a feat, but what do they really hope to gain? I personally just don't buy the "it will help catch terrorists" line.

That's what they said about the Patriot Act, and of course it hasn't.

[WMCoolmon]

Initial reaction: this is stupid.

More considered reaction: is this really going to help anything?

[NGTM-1R]

Yet more considered reaction: Where are you going to get the money?

[aldo_14]

Taxpayers

[vyper]

Originally posted by Crazy_Ivan80



it's the commission, no the parliament.
If you don't like what you're EMP is doing, vote him out.

Well, first it'd be an MEP, and considering the sheer lack of choice (beyond UKIP - yes, flame me all you want) it doesn't provide a very democratic solution.

[q]If you can be arsed to vote at all [/q]

What in ****? Where exactly have I ever stated I wouldn't be bothered voting?

[SadisticSid]

Originally posted by wolfdog


It's possible, but it would cost several million euros.

Purely an uneducated guess, but if this 'initiative' was publicly funded, you'd probably be spending almost as much on this than on transport or health, or some other major government department. Not only do you have to store what could amount to tens of thousands of terabytes of data, you've also got to store it in a catalogued format, provide retrieval mechanisms, then you've got government administrative and legal overheads, and they have to employ an entire task force of workers to comb through it all when a lead crops up. Given how relatively small-scale government-sponsored IT projects can be screwed up so thoroughly (c.f. London Ambulance Service) I don't think it is possible without a massive tax hike.