[Prophet]

I'm interested about the controlled space of Narn Regime after the Centauri retreated form their homeworld. I don't buy it that the Centauri occupiet all of their territories because that would have just doubled the size of their empire. And the Narn must have regained their strenght pretty fast since they were able to attack and bomb the Centauri Prime. And still had enought ships to remain back and guard their borders.

I am mainly interested in the year 2266. Does anyone have, or know of a map that would give any indication about the size of their space? Or does anyone have any other information (read a book etc.) that would help? Or if anyone would care to speculate on this I would greatly appreciate it...

Information about Narn relative military strenght would also be useful.

[Prophet]

I gather from the complete and utter silence that this issue is pretty much open for speculation?

Ok here's what I think:
The Centauri bombed the hell out of any Narn colonies, but did no invade them like they did with Narn homeworld, but just placed a fleet in to the orbit and the surviving Narns didn't have much choice but to surrender.
When the Centauri retreated from the Narn homeworld, they pretty much abandoned the whole Narn space. Since then the Narn have been struggling to rebuild.
At 2266 I think that they are rebuilding their former colonies and their borders are nearly where they were before the war. And their military strenght is about half of the pre-war might.

Does this sound about right?

[Fury]

Off topic, you should enable PM notification.

[aipz]

Speculations:
1. the Narn propably would have rebuild the most basic space infrastructure ( space stations and shipyards above major worlds)
2. their fleet would be relatively weak in terms of sheer numbers, since to build a new ship from scratch requires a lot time...
3. their fighter wings howewer would quite strong, as mass production of fighters is cheap and efficient
4. I would agree that overall their overall fleet power would be no more than 50% before the war with the centauri
5. the narn forces having experience in long war with the centauri would have many veteran vessels that fought using guerilla tactics, and such tactics would still dominate their engaments...
( due to lack of numbers)
6.Tha attack on centauri prime would be similar to Doolittle's raid on Tokyo in 1942 - more a one time important propaganda (retaliation)  mission, than a very devastating bombardment. A large tactical group of Narn warships would simply navigate in hyperspace the quickest route possible, achieve goals and quickly withdraw, as they don't have the resources needed for a prolonging conflict and need not to waste their resources ( lose too many ships and experienced staff, as they are hard to replace).
7.the Narn are still in a state of half-disorder (mass driver bombardment is quite nasty )

[karajorma]

Sounds fairly accurate to me.

[aipz]

1. use the surving ships to scrap any resources available and aquire new ones, transport goods etc.
2. build basic space infrastructure and rebuild civilian fleet/ begin refitting every possible warship for active duty (Th'nors and T'loths mainly) to field a reasonable system patrol force (civilian protection, versus raiders etc.)
3. Begin building of the simplest warships
and mass production of fighters ( the first step of fleet rebuilding)
4. With time switch to production of more sophisticated warships, capable of fighting on par with the centauri - G'quan and Bin'Tak ( flaghips mainly as they are too expensive and require so badly needed resources) - the second stage of fleet rebuilding)
5. Full scale mass  production of new designs ( which isn't yet possible in 2266)

In other words it's a process which would take at least a few decades, not to mention the rebuilding of devastated planetary economics...

[Prophet]

Originally posted by Mr. Fury
Off topic, you should enable PM notification.

Sorry... Enabled now. Never thought someone would send me PM.

[aipz]

1. Preserve both men and resources, better avoid unnecessary fights than lose badly...
2. Older ships patrol borders, while newer ones are staying in reserve to perform important missions and are fitted with best equipment and most veterans
3. they prefer hit'n'run tactics (due to surprise factor and brutal efficiency in short time, the other factor is the low  number of losses)
4. scavenging missions and trading with various illegal groups still takes place because the Narn will do anything for quick profit (they badly need all goods they can accquire)
5. the Narn thirst for Centauri blood...which is quite obvious...but they currently don't have the strenght to take on the centauri ( we might say it's a long term utimate goal :devil: )
6. their foreign policy is varied and done  to satisfy their current needs...( they are weak so it's rather peaceful)

[Prophet]

Since you started talking about their politics... Remember that G'Kar became a major religious icon and was clearly trying to preach about peace. And they are members of the ISA. So I think they truly aim to rebouild their infrastructure without any hostile actions towards their neighbours, not even the Centauri.

[aipz]

You're right! I've propably exaggerated a bit, but even as part of ISA some degree of feud and hatred remains ( mass driver species annihilation leaves great mental scars    - poor Narns lost their beloved ones, homes, almost everything, not to mention the previous Centauri occupation which left the Narn homeworld  scraped to the bone rock of resources and altered the climate...  
so they have the right to be )

[Prophet]

Oh, and the Drakh are still in Centauri. And attack Earth 2266, or 2267 was it?

[aipz]

Yes, so the feud will either disappear with time, as the narn will focus on rebuilding of their state and peaceful coexistence with other races... or errupt anew

[NGTM-1R]

Map...map...hang on...

Can be found about a quarter/third of the way down this page: http://efni.org/Dilgar_War.htm

It's big, tough to miss. Not sure how canon-friendly it is. Much earlier timeframe, too.

Drakh attack Earth in November 2266.

The Narn military was effectively non-existant following the bombardment of their homeworld, and the Centauri probably trashed that system pretty thoroughly, including complete destruction of whatever orbital shipyards there were. They might even have deorbited the shipyards as an auxilary to the mass driver bombardment. Narn is actually probably the worst-off of the Narn's worlds.

Narn military strength probably amounted to under twenty G'Quan cruisers at the end of the Narn-Centauri War, perhaps even under ten. These ships would likely be damaged and have only a few fighters left to boot. Perhaps a smattering of badly depleted ground-based fighter wings as well.

Near-anarchy would probably set in on the spacelanes. The Raiders would be all over the place, since the Narns can muster no effective defense. The first order of business from a military standpoint then would be to secure their own spacelanes and jumpgates again.

This is a comparatively easy task, actually, accomplishable with fighters and defense platforms. It would take them some time, yet it would also be a case of exponential growth: the more military ships there are, the more civilian ships make a "safe and timely arrival", which helps rebuild the economy, which creates more funds for military ships, and so on. The Raiders would have it all their own way for some time, but when the end comes, it will come quickly.

This would leave the Narns with a large, battle-hardened fighter corps. At that point they would work on rebuilding their interstellar fleet, probably focusing mainly on carrier-type craft to bring their main asset, their fighters, to bear. Capital ships might hit and run, but the main Narn tactic would be to deliever a large number of Frazis to the battlefield as rapidly as possible.

[aipz]

The Dilgar are extinct by 2266...
You must mean Drakh...

This map is similar to the 2258 one posted earlier, but the Narn teritory is smaller, so I guess it could fit the 2260's era...

[NGTM-1R]

Whoops.

[Kosh]

I found maps of multiple time periods on a B5 board once, Let me see if I can find it.



EDIT: Crap, I can't find them. I don't even remember which forum they were in. It was just too long ago......

[PSI-KILLER]

The Dilgar War would have made a great movie!

[Prophet]

Well thats about the only war that has not been made to a movie.
In B5 universe I mean.

[Akalabeth Angel]

Originally posted by Prophet
I'm interested about the controlled space of Narn Regime after the Centauri retreated form their homeworld. I don't buy it that the Centauri occupiet all of their territories because that would have just doubled the size of their empire. And the Narn must have regained their strenght pretty fast since they were able to attack and bomb the Centauri Prime. And still had enought ships to remain back and guard their borders.

The Centauri Republic used to stretch across a lot of worlds, the Narn systems included. To have them under Centauri control is certainly not unreasonable.

What is unreasonable, I think from the series is the rebuilding efforts of the Narn military. While there's no evidence the Narn colonies were bombarded, the homeworld certainly was, along with a lot of the infrastructure. Yet two years later, a Narn fleet is attacking the Centauri capital? They wouldn't even have shipyards up and running, let alone a dozen cruisers.

The Agents of Gaming map (which is official, btw), lists a secret system within Narn space where they research new technologies and the like. It's possible that a small fleet could have hid out there, or asked sanctuary with some of the league worlds. Otherwise there's no way they could have rebuilt that fast.

I'm trying to get my hands on the map right now and will let you know when I do.

[Prophet]

Originally posted by Akalabeth Angel
The Centauri Republic used to stretch across a lot of worlds, the Narn systems included. To have them under Centauri control is certainly not unreasonable.

But when the war started thet didn't. Lets say that Finland would have about a year to prepare for the occupation of Sweden (the Centauri didn't have lots of time to prepare for full occupation of Narn Regime, and were likely suprised how easily Narn fell 'cos Shadows helped them). Naturally we beat them easily ( ). But then what. The size of Finland would have doubled and we would have to manage that area with forces that were meant to protect only our own country. Then there are logistics and supply issues, resistance and so on.
When the Centauri concured half of the galaxy, it didn't happen in a day, but slowly more like exploring. And during then there weren't any pesky aliens, like Humans and Narns bothering them. So there was plenty of room to expand.
The Centauri propably controlled Narn sapce, but not completely. And not the planets.

Originally posted by Akalabeth Angel
Yet two years later, a Narn fleet is attacking the Centauri capital?

Well they did have the Drazi helping them out... But I have to agree with you.

Originally posted by Akalabeth Angel
The Agents of Gaming map (which is official, btw), lists a secret system within Narn space where they research new technologies and the like. It's possible that a small fleet could have hid out there, or asked sanctuary with some of the league worlds.

If the system is within Narn space then the Centauri would have found it during the occupation. Yes?
But Narn warships did flee after the war had been lost. One G'Quan came seeking help from B5, remember? That most certainly wasn't the only one going in to hiding.