[aldo_14]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4150312.stm

[karajorma]

All the news reports do say that there are some really puzzling aspects to this crash. Both pilots were supposedly knocked out by an explosive decompression but yet both appear to have failed to put on masks.

Not to mention the fact that the F-16s had time to scramble to the plane and visually inspect it but despite that no one from on the plane thought of contacting air traffic control or the emergency services and asking for information on how to fly the plane (Even though one person has reportedly sent two text messages to his cousin and described being inside the cockpit).

Bloody odd.

[achtung]

Thats one thing that always got me about the 9/11 attacks I mean what was it about 150 vs. 3?  They couldv'e over powered the terrorists but I guess tehy were sorta in shock.

[karajorma]

In that case they probably assumed it was a normal hijacking right until it was too late.

Remember that the 4th jet did crash when the terrorists were being overpowered.

 9/11 pretty much ended the normal "fly to this airport where we'll make demands" style of hijacking forever though. Now everyone is going to think of 9/11 and attempt to retake the plane before the terrorists can crash it into something or their countries own airforce shoot it out of the sky.

[aldo_14]

Worth noting in addition that the 9/11 hijackings were reportedly carried out using box-cutters to kill hostages (to get the pilots to open up the cockpit); that type of violence is intimidating even if you outnumber then, simply because normal people can't conceive stooping to that level of viciousness.  Of course, the one case where passengers did become aware of the aim of the hijackers, they did try to storm the cockpit.

[EtherShock]

I was surprised when I found out box cutters were the weapon, but it was probably cause of what Swantz and Kara said. However there is an argument that the passengers didn't bring it down. I'd like to think they did make a stand though, but I think any hijacker would be foolish to hijack a plane with only a box cutter now.

This is the first crash I heard caused by decompression. I read two people tried to take control after discovering what happened, so maybe the cockpit was depressurized first. At the altitude they were at, they had approximately 15 - 30 seconds to put a mask on.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by EtherShock
I read two people tried to take control after discovering what happened, so maybe the cockpit was depressurized first. At the altitude they were at, they had approximately 15 - 30 seconds to put a mask on.

That might explain why it crashed into a mountain rather than simply continuing flying at a steady altitude and speed. Doesn't explain why the person with the mobile phone didn't call someone who might be of some help in flying a jet though.

[aldo_14]

Blind faced sheer arsed panic?

Although it wouldn't really mesh with taking the time to type a text message out... possibly if the cockpit door was locked, but then he wouldn't know what happened to the pilot.  Perhaps the cold stopped them thinking logically or acting?  Or maybe they just didn't know who to call? (raises a question why no-one used the radio; there are reports passengers were in the cockpit trying to tkae control of the plane)

Very odd, anyways.

Originally posted by EtherShock
I was surprised when I found out box cutters were the weapon, but it was probably cause of what Swantz and Kara said. However there is an argument that the passengers didn't bring it down. I'd like to think they did make a stand though, but I think any hijacker would be foolish to hijack a plane with only a box cutter now.

This is the first crash I heard caused by decompression. I read two people tried to take control after discovering what happened, so maybe the cockpit was depressurized first. At the altitude they were at, they had approximately 15 - 30 seconds to put a mask on.

I thought there was cockpit recordings indicating the hijackers crashed the plane when the pilots tried to overpower them?

I can only think of one crash caused by decompression - Payne Stewarts learjet.  Largely because it continued flying for a long time with everyone inside dead.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by aldo_14
Blind faced sheer arsed panic?

Although it wouldn't really mesh with taking the time to type a text message out... possibly if the cockpit door was locked, but then he wouldn't know what happened to the pilot.  Perhaps the cold stopped them thinking logically or acting?  Or maybe they just didn't know who to call? (raises a question why no-one used the radio; there are reports passengers were in the cockpit trying to tkae control of the plane)

He texted that one of the pilots was blue and slumped over the controls. Why on Earth he thought it more important to text his cousin to say goodbye rather than someone who could have actually saved his life is completely f**king beyond me.

As for the radio I've got no idea what the button for the radio on a 737 would look like. I'd assume that it would be pretty obvious but maybe they did something stupid like turning of the engine thinking that it was something else.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by karajorma


He texted that one of the pilots was blue and slumped over the controls. Why on Earth he thought it more important to text his cousin to say goodbye rather than someone who could have actually saved his life is completely f**king beyond me.

I don't know, either.  Maybe he figured he was doomed.

Originally posted by karajorma

As for the radio I've got no idea what the button for the radio on a 737 would look like. I'd assume that it would be pretty obvious but maybe they did something stupid like turning of the engine thinking that it was something else.

Or just froze to death / unconsciousness before they could. I'm guessing if they were moving in the cockpit they may not have had an oxygen supply.

[karajorma]

The cabin crew should have an independant system of some sort. Pretty hard to do their job in an emergency if they're tethered to their chair by the need for an oxygen mask.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by karajorma
The cabin crew should have an independant system of some sort. Pretty hard to do their job in an emergency if they're tethered to their chair by the need for an oxygen mask.

Nah, i mean if there were passengers in the cockpit; they might not have been in position to grab the masks that are there (there is a definately a mask system for cockpits; if the co-pilot was dead it kind of implies any internal compression in the crew compartment was borked).

Unless you mean portable oxygen supplies, of course.  I'm not sure if they have those.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by aldo_14
Unless you mean portable oxygen supplies, of course.  I'm not sure if they have those.

That's exactly what I mean. I know some planes do carry them and I'd be surprised if they didn't all carry them.

[Hunter]

Air crashes are so horrific, that when you try to think about it... Well, it's just too much to handle. It has to be one of the most terrifying ways to die in this world. No matter how quick it may be when you actually "hit the ground". It's the going down part that kills you first. Interestingly enough, almost all air crashes are caused by human-error, stupidity or evil (such as terrorists), and are rarely the fault of the machines themselves (such as the Concord flaw).

[EtherShock]

Originally posted by karajorma


That might explain why it crashed into a mountain rather than simply continuing flying at a steady altitude and speed. Doesn't explain why the person with the mobile phone didn't call someone who might be of some help in flying a jet though.

Originally posted by aldo_14
Blind faced sheer arsed panic?

Although it wouldn't really mesh with taking the time to type a text message out... possibly if the cockpit door was locked, but then he wouldn't know what happened to the pilot.  Perhaps the cold stopped them thinking logically or acting?  Or maybe they just didn't know who to call? (raises a question why no-one used the radio; there are reports passengers were in the cockpit trying to tkae control of the plane)

What he said.

We humans aren't trained to be masters of our emotions. When they take control, all thinking stops, and in a situation with no room for error or delay, that's disasterous.

Originally posted by karajorma


He texted that one of the pilots was blue and slumped over the controls. Why on Earth he thought it more important to text his cousin to say goodbye rather than someone who could have actually saved his life is completely f**king beyond me.

See everyone? Cell phones do kill! ^_^

[Black Wolf]

You know, it might just be the case that he had no credit left on his mobile, but still had plenty of free texts left. I find myself in that position all the time.

[aldo_14]

U HV 2 PRSS 'LND' N COCKPIT

[EtherShock]

Originally posted by Black Wolf
You know, it might just be the case that he had no credit left on his mobile, but still had plenty of free texts left. I find myself in that position all the time.

Credit? You mean the phone company wouldn't let him make another call just because he would've gone over the limit? It would make sense if it was a prepaid deal. If you're going to die, I think the last thing on your mind in that kind of situation would be going over your minutes otherwise, unless it works different elsewhere.

This gives me an idea.

[Black Wolf]

Originally posted by EtherShock

Credit? You mean the phone company wouldn't let him make another call just because he would've gone over the limit? It would make sense if it was a prepaid deal. If you're going to die, I think the last thing on your mind in that kind of situation would be going over your minutes otherwise, unless it works different elsewhere.

This gives me an idea.

Exactly - prepaid. It's not that uncommon you know.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Black Wolf
You know, it might just be the case that he had no credit left on his mobile, but still had plenty of free texts left. I find myself in that position all the time.

Never heard of a company refusing to let you call the emergency services though. Just dial them and explain the situation to the operator.

Certainly more likely to save your life than what he did do.