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Author Topic: Apple may have to pay IPod royalties  (Read 1335 times)

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Offline Kosh

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Apple may have to pay IPod royalties
on: August 14, 2005, 12:22:26 pm
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

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Offline achtung

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Apple may have to pay IPod royalties
Reply #1 on: August 14, 2005, 12:49:17 pm
I hate ****ing M$:mad:

But in a way it's kinda funny :)
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In the wise words of Charles de Gaulle, "China is a big country, inhabited by many Chinese."

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Offline Kamikaze

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Apple may have to pay IPod royalties
Reply #2 on: August 14, 2005, 04:57:35 pm
Yay for the broken patent system.
Science alone of all the subjects contains within itself the lesson of the danger of belief in the infallibility of the greatest teachers in the preceding generation . . .Learn from science that you must doubt the experts. As a matter of fact, I can also define science another way: Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts. - Richard Feynman
 

Offline aldo_14

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Apple may have to pay IPod royalties
Reply #3 on: August 14, 2005, 05:02:18 pm
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/08/10/microsoft_apple_patent/

According to AppleInsider, a patent filed in 2002 by a Microsoft researcher has prompted the US Patent and Trademark Office to reject an Apple application to patent its iPod user interface.

But leave the black helicopters grounded for a moment: the conspiracy theories may not be flightworthy.

The AppleInsider story says the Apple application "to patent the menu-based software interface of its popular iPod digital music player has ultimately proved unsuccessful."

However that isn't the case. The story is coy about the patents it discusses, doesn't mention the Microsoft connection and upon further research, it's clear that several key aspects of the iPod are adequately covered by separate Apple IP applications. Both patents discussed have weathered multiple rejections by the USPTO.

The story reports that last month an iPod-related patent application for "rotational user inputs" by Apple was rejected, with the examiner citing an earlier 2002 application filed by John Platt. A Microsoft Research scientist who used to work for touch pad vendor Synaptics, Platt filed a claim for "playlist generation based on seed items" on May 30 2002, some seven months after the iPod was unveiled.

Comparing the two applications, it's hard to see how they overlap. AppleInsider claims "the process by which the iPod's software displays its own menu-based interface is very similar to the process Platt's filing goes on to describe." Such a similarity eluded us, although you can judge for yourselves - the links are at the end of this report.

Apple's application, assigned to iTunes engineer Jeffrey Robbins, Apple CEO Steve Jobs and VP of marketing Phil Schiller, was made on September 26 2002, and describes rotating an input device to navigate in a linear fashion through a user interface. "Although the type of computing device can vary, the improved approaches are particularly well-suited for use with a portable media player," according to the filing.

AppleInsider reports that the rotational patent has been rejected by the USPTO. However, this isn't as final as the statement suggests. "Non-Final Rejections" (NFR) of this kind aren't unusual. Patents are frequently bounced back to the inventor, and many successful patents are accepted only after several NFRs. For example, an Amazon.com e-commerce patent we wrote about recently succeeded at the fifth attempt in four years.

Apple's rotation application, we discover, received its first NFR on September 29, 2004 and was bounced again on June 13 this year.

But Platt's playlist application also has a rejection history. It received an NFR on 17 November 2002, and a more serious Final Rejection on 14 June 2004. After further documentation was received, and extension granted, the application received another NFR on 11 December last year.

Apple has filed a number of applications to protect the iPod and iTunes user interfaces, including 60/359,551 ("Touch Pad for Handheld Device") and 60/387,692 ("Method and Apparatus for Use of Rotational User Inputs").

Apple is facing two infringement suits claiming the iPod violates existing IP.
 

Offline Solatar

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Apple may have to pay IPod royalties
Reply #4 on: August 14, 2005, 06:50:33 pm
Dang...Micro$oft is stealing from Apple again. I thought they would just take Windows and leave.:doubt:
 

Offline FireCrack

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Apple may have to pay IPod royalties
Reply #5 on: August 14, 2005, 06:55:30 pm
Man, this is fecal.
actualy, mabye not.
"When ink and pen in hands of men Inscribe your form, bipedal P They draw an altar on which God has slaughtered all stability, no eyes could ever soak in all the places you anoint, and yet to see you all at once we only need the point. Flirting with infinity, your geometric progeny that fit inside you oh so tight with triangles that feel so right."
3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944 59230781640628620899862803482534211706...
"Your ever-constant homily says flaw is discipline, the patron saint of imperfection frees us from our sin. And if our transcendental lift shall find a final floor, then Man will know the death of God where wonder was before."
 

Offline Deepblue

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Apple may have to pay IPod royalties
Reply #6 on: August 14, 2005, 07:06:21 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Solatar
Dang...Micro$oft is stealing from Apple again. I thought they would just take Windows and leave.:doubt:


I find it incredibly funny that everyone is instantly blaming the 3vil 3mpire.

Besides I find this infinitely superior to the overrated iPod Mini.

« Last Edit: August 14, 2005, 07:15:58 pm by 944 »
 

Offline Kamikaze

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Apple may have to pay IPod royalties
Reply #7 on: August 14, 2005, 07:36:31 pm
That's 'cause Microsoft's head wankers have been known to speak out on their insatiable love for software patents. That's one of the reasons widespread acceptance of C# in the open source community may never occur, the mono project could get ****ed over royally by Microsoft patents. Too bad eh, C# wasn't even a totally bad idea either.

Apart from that, it appears the patent attributed to Microsoft is a pure software patent, which software developers tend to abhor (for good reason). The ipod patent appears to be a patent on a physical invention using software. So naturally the Microsoft patent will get more hate here.
Science alone of all the subjects contains within itself the lesson of the danger of belief in the infallibility of the greatest teachers in the preceding generation . . .Learn from science that you must doubt the experts. As a matter of fact, I can also define science another way: Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts. - Richard Feynman
 

Offline Deepblue

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Apple may have to pay IPod royalties
Reply #8 on: August 14, 2005, 07:47:01 pm
I still think Apple is marketing the iPod to be better than it really is. It has a nice design and all, but it's pretty bloody annoying that it doesn't  include nice features like a built-in FM tuner (with recording) and voice recording.
 

Offline Solatar

  • 211
Apple may have to pay IPod royalties
Reply #9 on: August 14, 2005, 07:47:18 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Deepblue


I find it incredibly funny that everyone is instantly blaming the 3vil 3mpire.

Besides I find this infinitely superior to the overrated iPod Mini.




iPod mini = crap. iPod shuffle is even worse...

My 15gig normal iPod has served me well though. I ended up breaking it, and I mailed it in on a Weds and a replacement was at my door on Saturday, so support was great. I still wouldn't say it's better than the other mp3 players on the market. It's just what I happened to get for my birthday.
 

Offline Ghost

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Apple may have to pay IPod royalties
Reply #10 on: August 15, 2005, 12:29:02 am
Woot for Microsoft. I hate Apple. Call me brainwashed, but I despise it.
Wh00t!? Vinyl? Is it like an I-pod 2 or something?

[/sarcasm]

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Offline Kosh

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Apple may have to pay IPod royalties
Reply #11 on: August 15, 2005, 12:33:15 am
I don't like either of them to be honest.
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

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Offline Ford Prefect

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Apple may have to pay IPod royalties
Reply #12 on: August 15, 2005, 12:44:19 am
I think they both have their strong and weak points.
"Mais est-ce qu'il ne vient jamais à l'idée de ces gens-là que je peux être 'artificiel' par nature?"  --Maurice Ravel
 

Offline Nuke

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Apple may have to pay IPod royalties
Reply #13 on: August 15, 2005, 06:32:15 am
i said it once and il say it again

:mad: BURN DOWN THE PATENT OFFICE! :mad:
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

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Offline aldo_14

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Apple may have to pay IPod royalties
Reply #14 on: August 15, 2005, 06:59:17 am
Quote
Originally posted by Deepblue


I find it incredibly funny that everyone is instantly blaming the 3vil 3mpire.


Well, you are talking about a company that tried to patent the ISNOT operator......
 

Offline Mefustae

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Apple may have to pay IPod royalties
Reply #15 on: August 15, 2005, 07:34:43 am
Honestly, uptight use of Patents are tearing society apart, if only we could embrace sharing and let go of this capatialistic view on technology, it would make the world a much better place and oh my God i've become a communist *puts on a red shirt*...well, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em...*marches off to destroy Capitalism*
 

Offline karajorma

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Apple may have to pay IPod royalties
Reply #16 on: August 15, 2005, 02:53:20 pm
I just wish Xerox would just sue MS and get it over and done with. Just file a patent on the WIMP style of GUI and then sue MS into oblivion.

They can point to this case as an example of MS attempting to sue on a patent only secured after the product was made. The fact that they're trying to patent something 20 years old shouldn't matter :D
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