[karajorma]

That makes it a lot clearer Thanks Fragaria

[Wild Fragaria]

Just read a review on human mtDNA.  The review discussed an interesting topic - ancient dapative mtDNA mutation.  Apparently, mammalian mtDNAs (although they are smaller and simpler compare to nDNA) have high mutation rate that contributed by chronic exposure to reactive oxygen species

[TrashMan]

There was a documentary on TV which showed a mother killer whale teching it's son where are the best beaches with nice round pebbles and how to scractch oneself there...

I would call that culture..

[Ford Prefect]

Then you have very relaxed standards. Many animals teach their young various skills.

[Wild Fragaria]

Originally posted by TrashMan
There was a documentary on TV which showed a mother killer whale teching it's son where are the best beaches with nice round pebbles and how to scractch oneself there...

I would call that culture..

Nope, you shouldn't.  More detail studies have yet to be done before we could call that a culture.  That's the whole point I posted the article about whale study (if you haven't noticed).

[TrashMan]

Isn't culture a set of knowlegde/skills imparted on to the next genertion by a specific group (more or less living in a specific area)?

[Ford Prefect]

A culture is the totality of all art, customs, and behavioral patterns of a specific group. We are the only species that demonstrates enough complexity for these distinctions to arise. Whales do not have art or customs, and all members of each whale species do the same whale things.

[Wild Fragaria]

Here's something might interest you, Karajorma.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/08/31/chimp.genes.ap/index.html

[karajorma]

It did indeed. I'm surprised it took them this long. I suppose the lab rat and fruit fly were considered higher priority (I'm still confused about that worm that they decoded though)

[Wild Fragaria]

Originally posted by karajorma
It did indeed. I'm surprised it took them this long. I suppose the lab rat and fruit fly were considered higher priority (I'm still confused about that worm that they decoded though)

Yep.  Mouse, lab rat and fruit fly are used every where in the research labs.  So what's should be decoded?

[karajorma]

I agree on those. Like I said it was the worm that confused me. I never understood why that was more important than chimps.

[TrashMan]

Originally posted by Ford Prefect
A culture is the totality of all art, customs, and behavioral patterns of a specific group. We are the only species that demonstrates enough complexity for these distinctions to arise. Whales do not have art or customs, and all members of each whale species do the same whale things.

Actually if I rember that documentary, the behavior was specific ONLY for this group of whales and was learned.

Of course you can allways change the definition of culture to anything you please so that any animal is excluded from even a possibilty to have culture....

[StratComm]

Originally posted by karajorma
I agree on those. Like I said it was the worm that confused me. I never understood why that was more important than chimps.

Maybe because of the orders of magnitude of complexity that the chimp DNA would have over worms?  Remember, Chimp DNA isn't all that different from our own, and that it has taken literally decades to compile the human genome.

[Ford Prefect]

Originally posted by TrashMan


Actually if I rember that documentary, the behavior was specific ONLY for this group of whales and was learned.

Of course you can allways change the definition of culture to anything you please so that any animal is excluded from even a possibilty to have culture....

By the same token, you can always change the definition so that every animal that has a communication form and/or the ability to manipulate objects does have a culture. The true definition of "culture" is admittedly one of the more pliable ones in the English language, and if you're really excited about this notion of other animals being "complex", then you can play with the definition to a certain extent. However, semantics aside, the behavioral variations from one group of human beings to another are the results of intricacies of thought that we simply have no reason to believe exist outside of our own species.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by StratComm
Maybe because of the orders of magnitude of complexity that the chimp DNA would have over worms?  

That could be it. I seem to vaguely remember some reporter saying that the worms genome was very simple. What I'm having trouble with figuring out is why this would be a factor considering that it was done after the fruit fly had been mapped.

Are there lots of labs using nematodes I wonder?

Originally posted by StratComm
Remember, Chimp DNA isn't all that different from our own, and that it has taken literally decades to compile the human genome.

That's mainly due to the fact that PCR was so bloody slow when the human genome project took off. It's gotten faster and faster as time goes by. The ended up cutting a third off of the original estimate due to that and better computing power.

[StratComm]

That is of course true.  I would hardly have expected chimp DNA to be done already if speeds were still as much of an issue, but by citing speed I intended to point out the potential parallel nature of genetic mapping.  It's not like every lab in the world has been concentrating on mapping the same organisms, one at a time, and by its simple nature the earthworm would have been completed quickly regardless of how many resources were thrown at it.

[karajorma]

Ahhh. Get you now

Does make you wonder what else is being mapped though doesn't it

[Wild Fragaria]

Originally posted by karajorma


That could be it. I seem to vaguely remember some reporter saying that the worms genome was very simple. What I'm having trouble with figuring out is why this would be a factor considering that it was done after the fruit fly had been mapped.

Are there lots of labs using nematodes I wonder?

There are many labs around the world that work with nematodes.  They have are simple, easy to obtain and care for

Originally posted by karajorma


That's mainly due to the fact that PCR was so bloody slow when the human genome project took off. It's gotten faster and faster as time goes by. The ended up cutting a third off of the original estimate due to that and better computing power.

Oh yeah, that's right.