[karajorma]

Or to give it a different spin how many Americans would support Europeans giving money to try to get the death penalty abolished in the USA?

Now that's definately a human rights issue which different countries look at in different ways.

[Rictor]

Yeah, I was speaking in general, not about just guns. There are many vaguaries (is that a word?), like the "right to dignity" and the list seems to be growing over time.

[Kosh]

I have a nasty feeling that Iran is going to be invaded next when the US has an opportunity.

[Roanoke]

And ofcourse American Democracy isn't the only wat to be "free"

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Kazan
aldo exactly "the right to bear arms" is not a human right - the "right to own property" is

Define what property is, though.  The loosest definition is any item which can be owned.  And also the right to security, which is maybe the more likely to be cited.

Again, not something I believe in myself - I'm for banning private gun ownership as has been in the UK - but surely you can see how there's enough ambiguity for an arguement.

[Bobboau]

ok, let me try to redefine this,
I think there government is being oppressive to there people, I suport efforts to help these people live in a state I think they currently would prefer to live in, namely a representitive democracy of some form with less of a theocratic government. regardless of how others would define human rights or terrorist/freedom fighter, I beleive the protesters in Iran calling for democratic reform are right, I beleive they are fighting for freedom, and I would suport them.

[Nuclear1]

Originally posted by Kosh
I have a nasty feeling that Iran is going to be invaded next when the US has an opportunity.

Syria's next, actually.

Just thought I'd point that out.

[Kosh]

They don't have the WMD excuse with Syria.

[Grey Wolf]

Originally posted by Bobboau
ok, let me try to redefine this,
I think there government is being oppressive to there people, I suport efforts to help these people live in a state I think they currently would prefer to live in, namely a representitive democracy of some form with less of a theocratic government. regardless of how others would define human rights or terrorist/freedom fighter, I beleive the protesters in the US calling for democratic reform are right, I beleive they are fighting for freedom, and I would suport them.

This has been done at the request of Ghostavo in IRC so he'll stop asking me.

[Bobboau]

Oh, you changed Iran to US, yes, clever..

[Grey Wolf]

Not my idea, as I wrote in the note after it. Ghostavo was bugging me on the IRC channel to do it, and I got tired of repeatedly typing "no" to his requests for me to do random things on the forums.

[Bobboau]

that was directed at who ever came up with it.

[EtherShock]

I think we should just stay the hell out affairs such as political change. If it's going to change, let them do it themselves. They'll appreciate it more. If they look like they might need help, ask. Only think about getting involved if they ask for help or take the offer for it. People don't like being told what to do. I'm not talking about the nukes.

[Rictor]

Originally posted by EtherShock
I think we should just stay the hell out affairs such as political change. If it's going to change, let them do it themselves. They'll appreciate it more. If they look like they might need help, ask. Only think about getting involved if they ask for help or take the offer for it. People don't like being told what to do. I'm not talking about the nukes.

Leaving people alone - what a concept! Such a great idea in fact, that a few hundred years ago some tax-dodging rebels decided to get together and form a country based on it. If only they could see their creation now.

Originally posted by Kosh
I have a nasty feeling that Iran is going to be invaded next when the US has an opportunity.

Let's see: Iran has three times the territory and three times the population of Iraq, plus they haven't spent a decade under sanctions. So no, Iran isn't going to be invaded. I dare say that even Israel won't dare to attack their nuclear reactors ala Osirak, Iran is just too big a force to take lightly. Half a million troops at the very least would be required to make an invasion anything more than a farce, and even assuming that the US withdraws completely from Iraq and Afghanistan, which is highly unlikely, they're still down several hundred thousand troops.

[Kosh]

What excuse does the US have to invade Syria? That Damascus is there and that it's destruction would supposedly cause the apocalypse?

[Bobboau]

well... obviusly that's were Sadam's weapons were all hidden! YEAH! bomb them!

[aldo_14]

Don't forget that Syria is an enemy of freedom!!!!111

Actually, didn't the US use to send people there for...um... 'interrogation'?  Up until someone in the administration decided it probably wasn't a good idea to send terrorist suspects to a country they were accusing of torture (which was kind of the point of sending suspects there....) and firing foreign fighters across the border into Iraq?

[EtherShock]

*Whispers* It's part of the Axis Evil!

No? Well, it is now. See how easy it is, instant enemy of freedom®.

[Grey Wolf]

Originally posted by aldo_14
Don't forget that Syria is an enemy of freedom!!!!111

Actually, didn't the US use to send people there for...um... 'interrogation'?  Up until someone in the administration decided it probably wasn't a good idea to send terrorist suspects to a country they were accusing of torture (which was kind of the point of sending suspects there....) and firing foreign fighters across the border into Iraq?

No, that was the Saudis. Possibly the Egyptians as well, but I don't think so.

[Bobboau]

we used Jordan I think, that's close.