[ChronoReverse]

The rules of Supply and Demand only apply during normal market conditions.

It is also known that normal capitalistic markets work... to a certain point.  It tends to break down when something extreme starts to occur (like a monopoly) which is why there's government intervention and regulations.


In this situation, it's not so much trying make economy boom but keeping it from collapsing.  The oil reserves were created for this very purpose: in case oil supplies are catastrophically diminished, the economy won't be hit so hard that a heavy recession appears.

Despite all the oil use for cars, more significant is the use in the industries and for power.  The nature of it means that it isn't as simple as just reducing oil usage.  At least not immediately without heavy ramifications.


In any case, it would be good if this serves as impetus to start to reduce dependency on oil; something that could only be done gradually.

[NGTM-1R]

I find it kind of amusing everyone's arguing market economics here, when the whole reason the reserve was released was because, with New Orleans gone, much of the South will shortly be without gas. Argue the market all you want. You're entirely missing the point. The fact remains that New Orleans being underwater, and with it the main point of entry for fuels into that section of the United States, is not an occurance that has anything to do with the market, and the actions to combat it have nothing to do with the market either.

[ChronoReverse]

I was trying to say that but it's been proven how ineloquent I am =)

[Flipside]

A second White House source says there are no plans for the president to address the country on gas.

'Hi there guys! Wheeee! Y'Know, I haven't felt this high since my army days....why do you keep poking me Colin?....'

[IceFire]

Prices here keep going up.  Now upto $1.15 or $1.30 in some places per liter.  I remember when gas prices were $0.40 and $0.60.

[Janos]

Originally posted by IceFire
Prices here keep going up.  Now upto $1.15 or $1.30 in some places per liter.  I remember when gas prices were $0.40 and $0.60.

What the Christ, that's almost, but not nearly, as expensive as in this socialistic Fennoscandian social experiment called Finland. Our gasoline prize jumped to 1,30e/l and has now gotten "back" to 1,26e/l.

[Rictor]

Huh?

Isn't it running at like $6.00 in Holland and a few other Scandinavian countries? That's what I read in the paper a while ago.

[IceFire]

Originally posted by Janos


What the Christ, that's almost, but not nearly, as expensive as in this socialistic Fennoscandian social experiment called Finland. Our gasoline prize jumped to 1,30e/l and has now gotten "back" to 1,26e/l.

Yeah...we used to have it good.  Not nearly as good as the Americans but still pretty good.

Its downhill all the way.  I can see us adopting alternative fuel options before they do.  Seems to be the way of things.  Us northern nations are a little more practical

[Kazan]

Tapping the SPR is going to do jack ****ing **** because IT'S CRUDE OIL -- it has to be refined - the problem isn't crude supplies, it's REFINED because 8 refiners are down

[Mongoose]

Originally posted by Kazan
Tapping the SPR is going to do jack ****ing **** because IT'S CRUDE OIL -- it has to be refined - the problem isn't crude supplies, it's REFINED because 8 refiners are down

While you're right about the refineries out of commission, there were also a lot of Gulf oil rigs either temporarily or permanently knocked out because of Katrina.  From what I've heard, even without the New Orleans area, there are some refineries in other parts of the country that aren't operating at full capacity right now.  If that is the case, then  I think using the SPR is a good decision.  After all, it's intended to be used in times of emergency.  Like anything else, if you keep putting off using it, thinking that there will be a worse emergency in the future, you'll never end up using it.  I don't think we should drain the thing dry, but releasing some of it may help the rest of the refineries stay at full capacity.

[Ace]

Agreeing with Kazan here. The problem isn't the supply of crude oil, but refining. (in fact most oil supply problems in the US are due to this)

Different state standards on fuel, etc. means that any disruption in refining is going to hurt.

The fact that the administration seems to think that they can solve the problem by injecting more crude into the market as opposed to announcing that the Army Corps of Engineers are building new refineries to solve the South's demand shows a lack of situational awareness. (common with all politicians in my experience in meeting with some)

[StratComm]

You know, the release of reserves is (and traditionally has been) done as a loan to producers, not a gift or grant.  In other words, it suppliments the supply in the real shortages, but in times of relative plenty the reserves are refilled by those that took from them in the first place.  Though Kazan and Ace are correct, the larger problem is the refining capacity, not the oil supply.

[NGTM-1R]

Originally posted by Kazan
Tapping the SPR is going to do jack ****ing **** because IT'S CRUDE OIL -- it has to be refined - the problem isn't crude supplies, it's REFINED because 8 refiners are down

And the port of New Orleans serves something like 12. Next BS, please.

[Kazan]

um ngtm1r.. are you stupid or misinformed... 8 refineries are down in that region due to power outages and damage - the supply of CRUDE is fine - they've had MANAGERS FROM THE REFINERIES AND OIL RIGS on goddamn NPR talking about this.


inform yourself before you tell someone else is full of bull****.


[i'm on a kick about being pissy with arrogant ignorami this week]

[redmenace]

Since when do you trust the energy industry?

[Kosh]

In any case, it would be good if this serves as impetus to start to reduce dependency on oil; something that could only be done gradually.

It should have been done a long time ago, the US is the only rich country in the world to have its average fuel efficiency go DOWN. You can thank the glut of SUV buying for that.


I was reading that about 95% of the oil rigs in the Gulf are either down or completely destroyed. Those things take a long time to build, and the Gulf was an important source of oil.

Lowering the gas tax will do pretty much nothing for gas prices. The gas tax is only about $.05 or $.06 per gallon. It won't make a difference.

[ChronoReverse]

Originally posted by Kosh


It should have been done a long time ago, the US is the only rich country in the world to have its average fuel efficiency go DOWN. You can thank the glut of SUV buying for that.

I did said impetus.  Unfortunately Corporate America and the American Wallet needs things like these to make them do things like reducing dependency on oil.


Not disagreeing, but just observing.

[Mefustae]

Hopefully, this crisis'll give certain leaders a ****ing reality check and remember that Oil, Coal, and most other Fossil Fuels are quite, quite limited, and as such it might just be a good damn idea to shift to another, more efficient Fuel Source. It can be done, and rather quickly at that, for example; just recently, I heard of plans that the entirety of New South Wales (...yay!) could be made to be run completely on Wind Power in just over 5 Years, which is just unreal! Although the plan might not go through, as many (very Ignorant) people ***** about the Sound said Windmills make, and Bird Watchers/Researchers/Lovers complain that Birds are killed by these Windmills regulary...other than those *****ing little wieners, it's a really great plan, so why can't the US do it? Because the Oil & Coal type companies are up there with the Cigarette companies in ruling the world and making sure the planet, and humanity, gets ****ed up so they can make a quick buck...

On a side note; anyone think that this whole damn crisis is going to be used as a scape-goat to haul ass outta Iraq and scimp on the bill over there...?

[Kazan]

redmenace the average joe in the oil company isn't the PR person or board of directors

[redmenace]

the average manager isn't exactly going to be unbiased and are  going to be worried about keeping their job. So they will put the rosiest face on the situation from the position of the oil companies.