[ZmaN]

Originally posted by phatosealpha
X360 ISN'T affecting ATi in any way other then paying them royalities.  MS bought the design, and are producing it.  ATi isn't responsible for actually making the ATi processors.

While there is speculation that ATi may at some point enable crossfire on nForce 4 boards, as it stands it's gonna require an ATi mobo.

ok, i figured that...

[ZmaN]

How much is the R520 going to start for?  I may jjust wait for that to come out, and get that, but then again, its probably going to be in the 7800 gt range, so i probably cant afford it.

oh, and well, after doing some research for dual core processors, people are starting to review them, and recommending that we get them.  considering the AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ has dropped to about $375, I am considering gettin one, the gaming performence is as good as a Regular Single Core 3800+, but it works better under more circumstances, (e.g. running windows with many applications open, or doing anti spyware and antivirus scans while playing games), it might be worht the extra money.  Whats your opinions??

Here is the review I read for the X2 3800+:  AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+, Let the Upgrades Begin!

P.S. Notice that on games, the X2 3800+ does a LITTLE worse than the Single core 3800+, but in everything else, it whoops its butt!

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by ZmaN

SLI is gay!!  

I just love these technical arguements.  So full of relevant, useful information.  Who'd have thought video cards could have predilictions towards the same sex?  Who'd have imagined they even had sexes?  I'm certainly going to listen a lot closer to the contented hum my videocard makes when I insert it (wahey!) into the motherboard.

[CP5670]

SLI > Crossfire, for the simple fact that you can buy an SLI setup right now and Crossfire Master cards are still nowhere to be seen. Also, you see Crossfire outperforming SLI in benchmarks because the X850XTPE is simply a faster card than the 6800 Ultra, not because Crossfire itself is somehow better.

How much is the R520 going to start for? I may jjust wait for that to come out, and get that, but then again, its probably going to be in the 7800 gt range, so i probably cant afford it.

At this point, I don't have much hope for the top end R520 XT. Even it's officially released soon, it's probably going to be in short supply for a long time so prices will be sky high, and I doubt it will be all that much faster than a 7800 GTX, especially given that the GTX has a lot of clockspeed headroom and several companies have released signficantly overclocked 490/1300mhz versions. The lesser R520 cards may be more interesting though.

P.S. Notice that on games, the X2 3800+ does a LITTLE worse than the Single core 3800+, but in everything else, it whoops its butt!

That's because the X2 manchester 3800 is clocked a good 400mhz lower than the normal venice 3800. There is hardly any difference in games beyond 2200mhz on an A64 though, as long as you play at a decent resolution. If you are going to run stuff in the background while playing games, the X2 will be much better.

I just love these technical arguements. So full of relevant, useful information. Who'd have thought video cards could have predilictions towards the same sex? Who'd have imagined they even had sexes? I'm certainly going to listen a lot closer to the contented hum my videocard makes when I insert it (wahey!) into the motherboard.

I go to the Anandtech video forum pretty regularly for reading exactly stuff like that. Apart from the usual nvidia and ATI diehard supporters, there are also PCI express fanboys and CRT and LCD fanboys. There is a even thread there with two old timers arguing about image quality differences with AF on four year old video cards. It's been going on for like two weeks.

[ZmaN]

wait, isnt the core in the dual core athlon X2 3800+ the same as the single core 3800+?  if yes, cant it be overclocked to about 2.2 ghz, instead of 2.0 ghz, with stock cooling?

[ZmaN]

and I wrote this baby up on another forum in reference to ATI Versus Nvidia, both SLI/Crossfire and Non SLI/Crossfire


I actually read a review that sum1 posted on the HLP forums and the RAdeon 9800XT (No, not the X800, the 9800XT) was BEATING the Geforce 6800 GT!!! its pretty amazing, of course at this point, the drivers are better, so they are probably the same going speed right now.

As for Nvidia getting better speeds by linking two cards together, yea thats how they got away with it, and well if you'll notice, SLI is not that great of a contender. Considering that you need TWO IDENTICAL CARDS (Im emphasizing here, not exclaiming), with TWO IDENTICAL BIOSES, and the cards CANNOT be MIXED AND MATCHED, they must be the SAME EXACT CARD from the SAME MANUFACTURER. Crossfire screwed that and now any card thats an X800/X850 Series works with crossfire, regardless of manufacturer.... Crossfire is also better than SLI, considering it works with ALL games, SLI Doesnt support all games. It costs about 800 bucks, to build a pretty killer gaming machine with a 6800 (and I dont like Nvidia) for 800 bucks.... NOW, lets look deeper. TO BUY (and yes this is how Nvidia is where its at right now in the market) TWO, not one but TWO Geforce 7800GT's would cost you, 800 bucks, buying from Newegg JUST FOR VIDEO CARDS. Now lets see, two Geforce 7800GTX's would cost you 1,000 dollars for SLI, again JUST FOR VIDEO CARDS. COULD YOU IMAGINE spending that much money on just TWO video cards? I cant... thats pretty insane. I mean at its cheapest, ATI can crossfire you for about 300 to 400 dollars, (two X800GT's, or an X800GT and an X800 Pro). If you ask me, for the performance-to-dollar ratio your getting, i dont think that SLI is well worth it. Heres some crossfire versus SLI reviews

Link: http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Reviews/Specific.aspx?ArticleId=14474




SO read that and tell me what u think!

[CP5670]

No, the 3800 is 2Ghz at stock, like the 3200. As for overclocking, all the single core revision E processors apart from the FXs generally top out at about the same level, in the 2.7-2.8Ghz range, and the stock cooler can get you pretty far unless you need to increase the voltage significantly. The X2s can generally go up to 2.4-2.6Ghz, but you may need something better than the stock cooler since they run quite a bit hotter than the single cores.

The information you're getting on SLI and Crossfire is either outdated or simply wrong. You don't need the exact same card or BIOS anymore in the 80 series drivers for SLI. Crossfire allows you to use two slightly different cards, but it just downclocks the faster card to match the speed of the slower one, so what's the point? ATI claims better game compatibility with Crossfire, but of course they would say that. Nobody knows if it's actually true at this point.

As for the price, of course SLI is wildly expensive and not worth it for most people (I personally would never buy it given that there are still compatibility issues), but your comparison is ridiculous. The most expensive SLI setup possible versus the cheapest Crossfire setup? The dual GTX setup is obviously more expensive because it's like three times as fast. Two X800 GTs (one a master card) will probably cost the same as a single X850XTPE or 7800 GT, which will both likely outperform them if the two 6600 GTs / one 6800 GT comparisons are anything to go by.

Crossfire's biggest problem at the moment is that it doesn't exist in the market. You simply cannot buy a Master card of any kind right now. Even when these do finally come out, they're going to price gouged by vendors because the only people buying them will be Crossfire users who the vendors know are willing to spend the extra money.

[ZmaN]

sorry, i admit that was a bad comparison.....  I was trying to show that Nvidias Cheapest SLi Soulution is a Little more xpensive than ATI's Crossfire solution.

[Grey Wolf]

No. SLI has the advantage because it actually exists on the market. They are both virtually useless however. The latency between the cards is too high for any proper benefit, and most of the cards they use it on are overkill anyway. Just get a single card, and when it's too slow to do what you want to do, replace it. Notice I say "what you want to do", as opposed to "cannot run the newest games". Only buy what you will actually use.

[aldo_14]

Whatever you do, don't copy this guy

[Descenterace]

Some people are too stupid to own a computer.

Others are merely too stupid to own a good graphics card.

[CP5670]

I've seen that posted like 20 times in various places. It's almost certainly a fake though; check the JPG image information.

[ZmaN]

wait, *feels completly retarted*, what exactly did he do.  What 'lines' did he cut?

And nobody is answering my question of dual core processors.  Should I get the dual core X2 3800+ for 50 bucks more then the single core 3800+, or should I stick with the 3800+ Single Core?

[Grey Wolf]

He sliced off half the PCI Express connector.

As for processors, the X2 will be more future-proof, so go for that.

[WMCoolmon]

Originally posted by ZmaN
wait, *feels completly retarted*, what exactly did he do.  What 'lines' did he cut?

And nobody is answering my question of dual core processors.  Should I get the dual core X2 3800+ for 50 bucks more then the single core 3800+, or should I stick with the 3800+ Single Core?

Well, I just basically asked that a page back, it's really your decision.

[MatthewPapa]

I say if ur gona go X2 get at least the 4400+ because its the same as 2 3800+s. If you get the X2 3800+ you are essentially getting 2 3200+s and single thread performace might not be what you want it to be although its still not bad.

[CP5670]

They should overclock about the same though as long as you have decent cooling.

[Grey Wolf]

Originally posted by MatthewPapa
I say if ur gona go X2 get at least the 4400+ because its the same as 2 3800+s. If you get the X2 3800+ you are essentially getting 2 3200+s and single thread performace might not be what you want it to be although its still not bad.

Cost may be a fairly important factor, in which case he may want to go for the 3800+.

[ZmaN]

HEY HEY HEY!!  I chose the 3800 cause I cant afford a 580 dollar X2 4400+...  Yes precisly why i chose the X2 3800+ dual core instead for a mere 375 dollars....  See the review at the bottom,  and yes... if you overclock a Dual Core X2 3800+ to 2.4 ghz from 2.0 ghz, you can actually get performance equal to the FX-55/57 Single Core.  It performs better than the X2 4200+ when overclocked, and almost as good as the X2 4800+ when overclocked, but its like what CP5670 said, get decent cooling and you can overclock it to that level...

As for the pic, I see what he did (cut the ending conector off of the PCI-E connector, but how is this verified as fake?  I checked the JPEG Picture Information but I dont see anything saying or indicating its fake...  As for gray wolfs post above this, exactly why I am going for the 3800+ X2...


AMD X2 3800+ Processor Overclock Benchmarks

[ZmaN]

one more question.  I went to AMD's Site outta curiosity, and well it list 2 separate models under the Athlon 64 X2 3800+

AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Comparison

What is the stepping?

The specs of both processors are exactly the same, so which one is the right one?