[aldo_14]

What exactly defines a 'kids console'?  Lack of graphic violence, nudity or swearing?  If so, why are they so often sneered at?

[Ghostavo]

Originally posted by aldo_14
What exactly defines a 'kids console'?  Lack of graphic violence, nudity or swearing?  If so, why are they so often sneered at?

PR aparently...

[Ford Prefect]

Originally posted by aldo_14
What exactly defines a 'kids console'?  Lack of graphic violence, nudity or swearing?

Yes, that's about right. If a game does not contain one of these fundamental features, I have no use for it. I play games to satisfy my base instincts.

[Ransom]

In most cases, the word 'mature' only really applies to the graphical content of most 'mature' games. Really, games like Resident Evil or Doom 3 aren't any more mature than Super Mario. They have violence and death and zombies but the actual game is really still just as immature.

[BlackDove]

That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

By that definition there is no such thing as mature, unless you're going to make a comparion based on psychological and emotional values, two very transparent concepts when it comes to a _game_ played on a TV.

Mature is exactly what the word means, opposite to immature, which isn't developed enough yet to grasp the mature stuff within a proper context. Usually gore, sex, etc.

Elfen Lied may be just another Anime, but the very first episode features a fully naked girl walking through a hallway and dismembering everyone in her path with blood and limbs overflowing each scene, for 10-15 full minutes.

Even if only a cartoon by definition, I can tell you for sure, it's mature.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by BlackDove
That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

By that definition there is no such thing as mature, unless you're going to make a comparion based on psychological and emotional values, two very transparent concepts when it comes to a _game_ played on a TV.

In gaming, there probably isn't such a thing as mature for the most part.  Certainly not mature themes; ultimately if you take away the claret GTA isn't too dissimilar in terms of action to jumping on mushrooms in Mario or playing Mario Kart.  Or the more obvious one of comparing Smash Bros to, say, Mortal Kombat.

EDIT
[q]Mature is exactly what the word means, opposite to immature, which isn't developed enough yet to grasp the mature stuff within a proper context. Usually gore, sex, etc.

Elfen Lied may be just another Anime, but the very first episode features a fully naked girl walking through a hallway and dismembering everyone in her path with blood and limbs overflowing each scene, for 10-15 full minutes.

Even if only a cartoon by definition, I can tell you for sure, it's mature.[/q]

Exactly - how many of the most 'mature' games provide an adult context of actions and consequences?

[BlackDove]

Originally posted by aldo_14


In gaming, there probably isn't such a thing as mature for the most part.  Certainly not mature themes; ultimately if you take away the claret GTA isn't too dissimilar in terms of action to jumping on mushrooms in Mario or playing Mario Kart.  Or the more obvious one of comparing Smash Bros to, say, Mortal Kombat.

Hmm, no.

There are similarities agreed, but it's not the same thing on any stretch of the imagination.

Originally posted by aldo_14

Exactly - how many of the most 'mature' games provide an adult context of actions and consequences?

That would probably depend on your definition of actions requiring according consequences, but from my experience, quite a few.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by BlackDove


Hmm, no.

There are similarities agreed, but it's not the same thing on any stretch of the imagination.

That would be a matter of personal perspective and imagination.  Even if you take the example of TV; Tom & Jerry is incredibly violent in terms of what actually happens, yet is considered kids TV (because there's no blood, I guess; or it'd be like Itchy and Scratchy).

Originally posted by BlackDove

That would probably depend on your definition of actions requiring according consequences, but from my experience, quite a few.

How many games (for example) have you tried and convicted (or held to a board of review - depending on context) for killing another person?  How many FPS games show injured allies or opponents writhing and screaming in agony after being shot? Or depict long term psychological trauma in a manner beyond a fuzzy bloom effect filter when a bar fills up on the hud?

(and that's just the issue of killing people.  Swearing is less definable, but then again it's not a requisite for 'mature' in any other medium either.  Sex...well, we don't see much sex in games, really, just titillation.)

The nature of games is, of course, that every action must have some consequence.  My issue, is that the consequences are very rarely realistic in that respect.

[Ransom]

Elfen Lied may be just another Anime, but the very first episode features a fully naked girl walking through a hallway and dismembering everyone in her path with blood and limbs overflowing each scene, for 10-15 full minutes.

That's mature content, not necessarily maturity.

What I'm mostly talking about here is story, I guess. Making a mature game in gameplay terms would be much more difficult. Take Silent Hill 2 for example - when you get right down to it the entire story is about sex, but it's done in a very sensible and, well, mature way.  A good example of the converse is Warrior Within; it's MA, it has gore and swearing and things but the characters and story are the gaming equivalent of Linkin Park.

[Scuddie]

OK...  Does an M rating define the game as mature?  Absofrikkinlutely not.  I'd like to use two games as examples.  First, Project OVERKILL!! for the PSX was rated M, although spend 5 minutes playing that game and you'd realize it to be one of the most immature games you ever played.  All that game had to offer, at all, was "Buckets of blood."  

Another game on the PSX was IQube (rated E).  A simple puzzle game with moderate graphics (for its time), which contained no language, sex, or violence (unless you call room sized bricks toppling over a guy violence), yet it was much more mature than "Buckets of blood".

You see boys and girls, violence, language, and sex don't define a game as mature.  It is the theme that determines a game as mature.  Jacking cars and shooting cops doesn't make the game mature, it is the lower-mid 90s LA gang life story that made the game mature.  That is something a kid wouldn't get, so they'd just shoot cops and laugh, even though that isn't the premise of the game.  Violence, language, and sex only serve to enrich and reinforce what is already there.  On the same hand, if it's censored out, it's not believeable.

[Grey Wolf]

Legend of Zelda is fun. Super Smash Brothers was fun. The Super Mario series in general was fun. Baldur's Gate was fun. Civilization was fun. FS2 was fun.

Fun is what matters. Not maturity.

[ChronoReverse]

Meh.  I like the concept and the ideas.  Button placement on the top ought be revamped a bit though.  I don't relish reaching for the two buttons near the bottom.

Other than that, it's nice to see a company actually innovating.

I remember a certain article complaining about the lack of innovation in the industry.  From the responses I see about the Revolution controller, I'd say that the reason why innovation is dead is because the masses don't want that.  If they were criticising real flaws in the design (for example, the sensitivity still needs to be fixedm slight lag needs to be fixed, button placement needs to be fixed) then it'd be alright but most are just saying "it looks dumb".


In any case, it doesn't matter if this tanks.  Nintendo has enough spare capital to lose money on the next three generations of consoles without going under.  Afterall they've always made a profit.  And despite not selling as well in numbers as the PS2, the Big N made money hand over fist from the GCN.

[WeatherOp]

Originally posted by Grey Wolf
Legend o' Zelda be fun. Super Smash Brothers was fun. The Super Mario series in general was fun. Baldur's Gate was fun. Civilization was fun. FS2 was fun.

Fun be what matters. Not maturity.

, I loved to play SSBM, still do. It's just fun, thats all that matters.

[MicroPsycho]

I have nothing to say to those of you confusing the definitions of 'mature' (and its rather clear who those are) other than STFU

[mikhael]

Originally posted by Grey Wolf
Legend of Zelda is fun. Super Smash Brothers was fun. The Super Mario series in general was fun. Baldur's Gate was fun. Civilization was fun. FS2 was fun.

Fun is what matters. Not maturity.

See, he Gets It (tm).