[TrashMan]

If it doesn't make a big difference 8gameply wise) what'+s the problem?


a extra corvette in the Kolth mssion that jump in at the other side of hte Repulse would make no difference to the missioin - the Collie would blast it to bits in seconds


And the collie actualyl shooting at hte Sath would allso change nothing. It can't win anyway.

[Mongoose]

Things like adding ships to a mission that aren't supposed to be there qualify as major changes, at least in my opinion.  It doesn't matter if the Colossus would be able to easily finish it off; the fact remains that the ship doesn't belong there in the first place.  Plus, having the Colossus fire on a corvette might change how it attacks Koth's ship, which would throw off the timing of the entire mission.  As for the Colossus shooting at the Sathanas, I thought that I've seen it fire off  a shot or two when I've played the mission in the past.  You are right about that one, though; it wouldn't really be changing anything at all.  The change isn't really necessary, though.

[TrashMan]

Neither are the nebulas as well when you look at it like that...

[Fenrir]

Nebulae don't throw off mission balance.

[Mongoose]

The upgraded nebulae are no different than HTL ships or hi-res textures; they improve the visual aspect of the game without changing how it runs in any way.  The reason I'm always so wary when someone talks about bugfixing the FS2 campaign is because I consider it to be the best singleplayer gaming experience I've ever had; it's the same light in which I view the Descent multiplayer experience.  I've always thought that, in most cases,  how a game plays is infinitely more important than how it looks. However, since I already loved FS2's gameplay so much, I've seen the graphical improvements that the SCP has managed to pull off as just icing on the cake; they add a ton of spice and flair to the game without impacting the same amazing experience I had the first time I played  through it.  That's why I think that, if there is any bugfixing to be done, it has to proceed very carefully, and it should only change what had there in the first place if absolutely necessary.

[TrashMan]

Originally posted by Fenrir
Nebulae don't throw off mission balance.

Neither does a corvette beoing blown up away from the player. It's moe a cosmetic thing than a balance issue..

[karajorma]

It's also not mentioned by any of the in game messages or by the debirefing. How realistic is that?

Singh has said he's not doing it. Give it up. Or just open FRED and make all the changes you want to his mission once he releases it.

[Mefustae]

Originally posted by FireCrack
Just redo the whole mission, it's preety stupid to have the collie way out on it's own doing nothing anyways.

I seem to remember the mandate of the SCP being to better the look and gameplay of FS2, but never stuff around with 's stuff; ie. Missions, Basic models, ...etcetera...

Fixing up a mission to eliminate bugs/typos/etc. is all well and good, but when you start rebuilding a mission from scratch, you get the sudden urge to 'make it better', which of course is all based on your opinion. You then end up with a mission nothing like the original, and have broken the mandate of the SCP...

[TrashMan]

Originally posted by karajorma
It's also not mentioned by any of the in game messages or by the debirefing. How realistic is that?

Teh term "Rebel Fleet" has been said several times now.

"We hope the rebels will capitalize their advantage and sortie their fleet."

Since when does a single destroyer count as a fleet?

[Sheepy]

You know guys, i have to say i agree with Trashman on this one. If we can add these lil things without braking the balance, why not?

As he said in the end it will come down to being cosmetic, im sure with the use of flags and scp trickery it can all be done.
I think i would make it more believable, its not exactly going to destroy the way the mission plays is it? Just that bit of extra gloss and imerssion.

Hell ... lurks off to FSU Forum.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by TrashMan


Teh term "Rebel Fleet" has been said several times now.

"We hope the rebels will capitalize their advantage and sortie their fleet."

Since when does a single destroyer count as a fleet?

Since Volition decided it did.

[karajorma]

Plus the fact that sending in an orion AND corvettes to deal with one damaged cruiser is ridiculous.

[Axem]

"We hope the rebels will capitalize their advantage and sortie their fleet."

Never said they would. They just hoped they would. Koth proved them wrong by only sending in the Repulse.

[Anaz]

As far as I see it, this isn't SCP. This is singh's bugfix of the retail campaign. So he can do whatever he damn well pleases with it. I personally think some plausability/suspension of disbelief fixes would be nice, but if the goal is to fix the main camp, I'd accept just bugfixes. It's been ages since I played FS2 anyways.

[StratComm]

Originally posted by Sheepy
You know guys, i have to say i agree with Trashman on this one. If we can add these lil things without braking the balance, why not?

As he said in the end it will come down to being cosmetic, im sure with the use of flags and scp trickery it can all be done.
I think i would make it more believable, its not exactly going to destroy the way the mission plays is it? Just that bit of extra gloss and imerssion.

Hell ... lurks off to FSU Forum.

That's just it, adding ships, regardless of where they are in the mission (unless they're off in the distance so far you, or any mission-critical ships around you, or anything story-centric like the Colossus, cannot interact with them) breaks mission balance.  Sure, the missions can be re-balanced, but they are still not balanced the same as the version was.  A place adding additional ships may fit would be Apocalypse, where the cutscene shows a Hatshepsut and some other ships fighting off in the distance right before the supernova hits; if they were far enough away to not interfere with the mission IN ANY WAY (i.e. your fighters, enemy fighters, your capships, enemy capships, and within reason the player have no way of interacting with any of them) then it might be ok.  But putting extra ships in missions where the player or important ships might interact with them, and where the only precident is someone's opinion on what should be there in his mind, is very much out of line for a bugfix.  It is Singh's baby and he is free to do what he wants with it, but I'd love to have a main campaign with proper backgrounds that lets me play it as wrote it and that seems to be what he's aiming for.  And I think he's dismissed the extra ships argument anyway, so PLEASE drop it.

[karajorma]

I agree. Any further comments on the matter will be pruned.

As will be any puns based on the word prune.

[TrashMan]

Originally posted by StratComm


That's just it, adding ships, regardless of where they are in the mission (unless they're off in the distance so far you, or any mission-critical ships around you, or anything story-centric like the Colossus, cannot interact with them) breaks mission balance.  Sure, the missions can be re-balanced, but they are still not balanced the same as the version was.

Oh please? What do you think the Collie would do to a Corvette far off to the Repulses right (away from the player and other mission ships)? Pulverize it in one-two shots of course. Possibly with his side beam cannons. Even if he uses one of his more forward ones, you realyl think the Repulse coudl win? Heck, this might reduce the Collies hull at the end of the mission by 2-3%.
BIG DEAL
(I know, I allredy did such change once..heck you can throw in several cruisers too it changes nothing for the player..)

Anyway, most of hte guys here are allways complaining that the colle sucked and was never presented propely. So present it allready then...

[StratComm]

It doesn't matter.  It wasn't there and there's no convincing reason to add it besides inconsistant voicing for the mission.  Let it be inconsistant.  In mission, all we know is there from voice-over is the Repulse.  It doesn't need to be fixed.

[Sheepy]

Hmm, i know what your saying strat, and bare in mind this is coming from some one who has no modding experience what so ever. I was mearly put forward that Trashmans idea has some merit, be it for this little project or some other complete overhaul.

[TrashMan]

Originally posted by StratComm
It doesn't matter.  It wasn't there and there's no convincing reason to add it besides inconsistant voicing for the mission.  Let it be inconsistant.  In mission, all we know is there from voice-over is the Repulse.  It doesn't need to be fixed.

"The Repulse has arrived. The big fish has devoured the bait! Now sending in the Colossus!"

The Repulse is the main target as hte admiral is there - the brainz of the NTF forces in this sector, so of course it's mentioned. A collie wouldn't have a problem with a few lighter vessels in tow.
Just couse command doesn't specificly account every single fighter and cruiser that pops in front of you doesn't mean it shouldn't be there. After all, you all (pilots) can see them coming.
Besides, being caught up in the moment of the Repulses arrival and ordering the springing of a trap, anouncing the name of acompanying corvette or cruiser to the player isn't really a prority anyway...