[Sandwich]

Originally posted by Kazan
Sandwich: that's fairly typical behavior for a rather vocal section of christians in america

now you know why i dislike them

Answer me this, Kaz: How often does the media portray A) Non-vocal sections of any group, and B) "Boring" news.

They don't. What you need to do is realize that what you're gobbling up is a biased (i.e. not random selection; a human chose those stories in particular) portion of some people group or another in any news report you read or see, and to weigh your opinions and beliefs about a situation in accordance with that awareness. Not doing so is grossly negligent and irresponsible.

[Bobboau]

yeah, and the media places these wackos on the streets and in the stores for you to run into and get into arguments with as well.

[aldo_14]

Nutcase.  Or an actress.

Although I think everyone worries when this sort of vocal minority gets influence and power disproportionate to their real size.  To an outsider, it appears to be going/have went that way in the US.

@Kaz: shouldn't you write ' conservative "christian" '?  Just a thought.

[Kazan]

Sandwich: and the media makes up the the laws that they're trtying to pass too, and the media makes up demographic studies, and a million other things that point ot the fact that there are a growing number of fundamenalists in this country and that they're trying to turn it into a theocracy

[IceFire]

Fortunately the political culture of one presidency is going to end in a few years.  Hard to say who will be the next president or which party will be in power.

Keep in mind that you folks have a republic and not a straight out democracy.  I can't see a single party remaining in power and everything else disappearing, the system is fundamentally based on a two party system which is why its so hard for a third party or independant to break into the system.

The last time I went to vote I could vote for 5 parties...of which 3 had some credibility at representing national interests.  Its much more fluid that way

A theocracy would probably tick off of big business...ultimately they are in power

[Kazan]

IceFire: 75% of the judiciary is made up of republican appointees - and one of the moderate supreme court justices is going to get replaced by a theofascist corporate-whoring right-wing extremist

they've got the election system rigged - and anyone who pulls out the "OMFG tin foil hat freak" on me hasn't been monitoring the security issues with the Diebold EVMs for 7 years.  Diebold makes perfectly secure ATMs, but they cannot plug 7 year old security flaws in their EVM? *cough*horse!!!!*cough*

There is a video out there of a TRAINED MONKEY hacking GEMS and altering the vote total and you cannot detect it - because there is no paper audit trail

[mikhael]

Whilst Kaz is right about the voting machines (blatant election corruption top to bottom on THAT score) and some of the crazy laws, he's wrong about most everything else. Yeah, we've got a mostly republican nominated bench on the SCOTUS, but we've had that for a long time. Some of the people we're calling "moderates" now started out as conservative appointments (hence the backlash against the microsoft lawyer).

[Kazan]

Mikhael is correct - some of the people appointed to the bench by republican presidents in hope of them being conservative idealogues either turned out not to be, or just sitting on the bench mitigated their extremism.  However this is not the case for Antonin Scalia [history of not recusing himself from cases he has conflict of interest on, making pro-corporate rulings, etc], and bush wants to appoint judges like him.

[Goober5000]

Originally posted by Kazan
and bush wants to appoint judges like him.

Ha!  If Bush had any interest at all in appointing judges like Scalia, he wouldn't have picked Roberts.  Bush is an authoritarian moderate in conservative clothing.

[Kazan]

Goober5000: I'd say he's more an authoritarian wannbie-theocrat with no idea about money other than he wants as much as possible in his hands and the hands of his buddies

but in essence I agree... Roberts isn't that great of a judge overall - but going into Rhenquest's spot it doesn't matter - picking a totally unknown unexpirienced crony who probably is another scalia for the swing-position is a completely different matter

[Bobboau]

about Miers, I know she's an evangelist, and pro-life, but the conservitives are haveing anurisms about her, so it's makeing me wonder two things, maybe she isn't realy that bad, and maybe there is a massive conservitive strategy to make people like myself think that.
though no matter what, she won't be anything more than a 20-30 year problem.

although, I find it funny how all the conservitives are absolutely screaming about her and foaming at the mouth because they aren't 100% absolutely certan that she'll be legislateing conservitism from the bench, when not a week earlier they were levying atacks against us for not just rubberstamping roberts due to concerns about his judical philosiphy.

[Osiri]

wow now I understand why Bush is president.  What a stupid fat !!!!ing hypocritical !!!!!

[Ace]

Originally posted by IceFire
A theocracy would probably tick off of big business...ultimately they are in power

Keep on America, keep on consuming at Wal-Mart! For Jesus!
 -Ecclesiasticals 25:25

[mikhael]

A theocracy wouldn't really tick of business in America. Corporate america would just take out sponsorship deals. "BUY JESUS COLA!". "INTRODUCING THE FORD HOLY SPIRIT". And similar. Corporations, like cockroaches, will fit themselves in anywhere there's a gap and make it theirs.

[Sandwich]

Semi-vaguely-not-really related... I was at a big gathering of Christian Zionists tonight, around 6000 of them, and they were being addressed by Israel's Minister of Tourism (I think...). This guy spoke rudimentary english (reminded me of "so ronry.... so ronry..."), but the best part was when he referred to "Genocide chapter 12" - or at least, it sure sounded like that. My friends and I were literally crying with laughter. Ahh, it was great. I love laughing. Laughing's my favorite.

[IceFire]

Originally posted by Kazan
IceFire: 75% of the judiciary is made up of republican appointees - and one of the moderate supreme court justices is going to get replaced by a theofascist corporate-whoring right-wing extremist

they've got the election system rigged - and anyone who pulls out the "OMFG tin foil hat freak" on me hasn't been monitoring the security issues with the Diebold EVMs for 7 years.  Diebold makes perfectly secure ATMs, but they cannot plug 7 year old security flaws in their EVM? *cough*horse!!!!*cough*

There is a video out there of a TRAINED MONKEY hacking GEMS and altering the vote total and you cannot detect it - because there is no paper audit trail

You make it sound like the entire Republican party are all the same.  Although they have been pretty steadfast in the last 5 years at towing the party line, there have been some pretty decent divisions recently and some good policy (on at least one occasion) coming from Republicans that runs contrary to the main line towed by the current administration.

Political parties are not homongenous inside of their ranks...especially not ones as large as the Republican or Democratic party.

I know you get all worked up about these things so I'm going to cut it short (and I also know you probably won't listen or don't care what my opinion is but I'm still saying it for the sake of maybe being heard).  My opinion is that politicians are too busy tripping over each other and causing scandals and the like to remain steadfast to one overarching uberplan that has been branded about so often.  While there definately is a neo-conservative plan that have been drawn up by people like Rumsfeld, its not ever going to be a solid scheme.  Even if 75% of the judiciary is Republican...that doesn't mean they all think the same way, hold exactly the same values, or who aren't going to at some point not agree with the current administration and tow a different line.

Time will tell how things work out.  They usually don't end up being as bad as we sometimes worry they might be...but you're right to question and be cautious.  You wouldn't be a good democractic citizen if you weren't.  Not according to the major theorists on the subject anyways (whats his name...uhh that guy...Locke was it?)

[Osiri]

Thank you that is exactly what I have been trying to say all day over in the patent argument forum.  

Things are not always as bad as may appear at first sight.

Plus, IceFire is completely correct.  There is nothing wrong with republicans or democrats.  

I only despise the republicans who try to shove thier beliefs, thier religion, thier lifestyles down our throats like they know what is best for all of us.

I have been fighting crazies like this lady all my life as a Texan.  How bout the guy who had a discussion about abortion with me (how it was the devils work) then went home and printed out about 50 pages of fundamentalist Bull !!!! and found where I lived to deliver it to me.  

Hell I even dated a girl who was like that woman. (much better looking though because god help me who would date that fat !!!!! much less have sex and kids with her.)  

Our break up was classic.  I told her I was not sure about our relationship one night.  I told her I thought we needed to be apart.  Well the next night she insisted on coming over to my apartment to tell me that God had told her that we needed to break up and that she had to end it.  God was a bit late eh.

I really should have known better than to date her about the time she told me that she would date me cause god said it was right.  Or maybe when I sat with her in her front yard to pray one day.(that was fine with me)  What was a little weird is she started praying that I would become a priest.(not the right job for me)  

For anyone who is wondering I am a very strong Baptist Christian.  I believe all the stuff.  I am not a STRICT CONSTRUCTIONIST of the bible.  I mean it is the most metaphorical text possible in the old testiment and revelations.  Well except for the fact that the Anti Christ already has the power of the most powerful nation(at least for now) in the world.

[mikhael]

Originally posted by IceFire
Time will tell how things work out.  They usually don't end up being as bad as we sometimes worry they might be...but you're right to question and be cautious.  You wouldn't be a good democractic citizen if you weren't.  Not according to the major theorists on the subject anyways (whats his name...uhh that guy...Locke was it?)

Things turn out better than we fear precisely because we do fear what might happen. Its one of the basic principles of democratic systems. At least, in my opinion anyway.

And Sandwich, that is the funniest thing ever.

[Jetmech Jr.]

Originally posted by Sandwich
Semi-vaguely-not-really related... I was at a big gathering of Christian Zionists tonight, around 6000 of them, and they were being addressed by Israel's Minister of Tourism (I think...). This guy spoke rudimentary english (reminded me of "so ronry.... so ronry..."), but the best part was when he referred to "Genocide chapter 12" - or at least, it sure sounded like that. My friends and I were literally crying with laughter. Ahh, it was great. I love laughing. Laughing's my favorite.

___->Your joke

-> My head


___

[Osiri]

Originally posted by Jetmech Jr.


___->Your joke

-> My head


___

Genocide = Genisis

Fundamentalist want to genocide the other religions.