[Andreas]

How do you think the European Union will develop over the next decades? Will it fall apart at some point, will it become the US of E, or what?

If EU could get rid of that horrible bureocracy it has become, I think it could become a major player in economics and politics, but in order to do that they would have to heavily centralise their decision making.

And as a last note, I am stricktly against Turkey becoming a member of the EU (the Union already has enough problems among it's current member states, and IMO it is expanding too fast as it is already).

Discuss!

[Count Brie]

nothing much will happen over the next decades. think a hundred years forward or so, and we're talking one united european nation. maybe.

[vyper]

It's the next major player, the problem is it's so full of ****e at it's core we're doomed to facism.

[Goober5000]

Originally posted by vyper
It's the next major player, the problem is it's so full of ****e at it's core we're doomed to facism.

Iron and clay.

[Kie99]

I'd like to think that without the support of Great Britain (including the people) that Europe can't progress very far.  And with papers like The Sun still going I don't think there will be support for a USE or anything like that.

[Liberator]

Originally posted by Ai No Koriida
If EU could get rid of that horrible bureocracy it has become,

The problem, Koriida, is that beuacracy is a natural outgrowth and state for socialist systems which is what most European nations are.  Sure everythings free but you have 10 different forms to fill out to prove you need it.

[vyper]

*sighs and doesn't even try*

[Liberator]

vyper, show me one socialist government that hasn't devolved into a beauracratic nightmare.

[aldo_14]

And how many european 'socialist' governments have you directly interacted with then, Lib?  Or are you going by second-hand opinion?

[Goober5000]

Elbonia.

[Rictor]

Originally posted by Liberator
vyper, show me one socialist government that hasn't devolved into a beauracratic nightmare.

erm, probably the Zapatistas.

Though you are basically right about socialist governments and beaurocracy. However, the culprit there is not socialism itself, but statism, which is present to a large degree, especially these days, in rightist governments as well. Beaucrocracies (erm, that can't be right, can it?) both cause and result from increased governmental power, and since more or less all governments love their power and want to increase it, I think its unfair to single out leftist ones.

Its really a give and take, more freedom vs better quality of life (not including freedom as quality of life.).

[Deepblue]

Freedom is quality of life.

[vyper]

For once I'm on your side.

[Rictor]

I meant things like road quality, literacy, healthcare and economic standing. Yes, freedom is quality of life, but its necessary to make that distinction, however artificial, because they are not necessarily one and the same.

[Ford Prefect]

Freedom is a cornerstone for quality of life, but a cornerstone by itself does not make a building.

[aldo_14]

Unless you're a stone-burrowing insect, in which case it does.

[Shrike]

Consider that business that expand quickly by buying up smaller businesses tend to falter or even implode messily... and consider that the EU is expanding quickly by adding new member states...

There may be a correlation, there may not.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

The EU members are getting closer and closer to each other by the year. It's a slow proces but not one even the UK can stop (cause they too regularly come with yet another project that should coordinated on EU-level. Which is policy-speak for "let the EU run it")

And remember that the EU already works at multiple speeds. Not all the members are in Schengen or the euro-zone for example (although al the new members are legally bound to join at some point).

But we'll not call ourselves the US of E for sure. Too silly.

[Liberator]

Originally posted by Crazy_Ivan80
But we'll not call ourselves the US of E for sure. Too silly.

Don't bet on it.

You could become the Coalition, which would make the USA the Alliance.

[Andreas]

Lib, have you been playing Starlancer again?

Anyways, if somebody is curious, I am certainly not a federalist, and yes, USE sounds ultra-corny

As I said before in anoether thread, EU should be built on the premise of being strictly an economic alliance, with trade and tax agreements, like it's predecessors ECSC/EEC, rather than trying to become an all-powerful federation. Hopefully/maybe in the future (50-60 next odd years) the EU will shift it's focus more back to the economy.