Author Topic: Actions the US will take  (Read 8951 times)

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Offline Kazan

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Quote
Originally posted by Pez:
 That's exactly what NATO and UN have been doing to Iraq for some years now. B]

we hit military targets - all the 'civilian hits' were bombings arranged by Saddam

as for the embargo that that is to put pressure on Saddam to step down - we also give him things that are specifically suppose to go to the population and do not make it there - ie food and medical. Saddam is causing the suffering of his people not us.

Get your facts straight on a subject this old before you shoot your mouth off.

"Better to remain silent and let people think you are ignorant, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
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Offline Martinus

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Computer hackers could have crippled the entire country but it wouldn't have been an adequate show of force so instead america cranked countless millions in a campaign that could've been far more effective if they'd only hit a few specific targets.

If you think I'm talking crap then you should know that analysts in NATO provided this info.

 

Offline Pez

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This is not a question of taking sides. This is a question about right and wrong. This is for you to get some perspective on things. It's not all good and evil, black or white.

And in this case I think the embargo hasn't done what it should do. At first the reason for the embargo was good. It was to prevent Iraq to start another war.

But the sanctions have missed their intended mark. And instead ordinary people get hurted by this.

And about that humanitarian help. I dont't really know, but what I know is that Iraq can't sell their oil. And oil is where they get their money from.

Oh...and Kazan. Calm down, I can't say that I'm 100% right or that I have all the facts. And I dont't know your sources about Iraq bombing themself, but I don't think Nato would say that they bombed civilians. As I said it's not all black and white.

Pez

 

Offline KillMeNow

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irag can sell its oil they jsut wont left him buy weapons with it but food medicine and all normal stuff to allieve the suffering he is allowed to sell his oil in exchange for
ARGHHH

 
 
Quote
Originally posted by Kazan:
we hit military targets - all the 'civilian hits' were bombings arranged by Saddam

as for the embargo that that is to put pressure on Saddam to step down - we also give him things that are specifically suppose to go to the population and do not make it there - ie food and medical. Saddam is causing the suffering of his people not us.

Get your facts straight on a subject this old before you shoot your mouth off.

"Better to remain silent and let people think you are ignorant, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

Yes, you are right, as the civilian targets you hit in Serbia were arranged by them.

ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND???

YOU THINK THAT YOUR GOVERNMENT AND MILITARY LEADERS ARE *******  SAINTS AND UNMISTAKEABLE??? YOU KNOW **** .

When those things happened you were sitting in your house watching on TV what your authorities wanted to show to you.

Do you know that your planes bombed Albanians that were fleeing the country? And a hospital? Or you believe that the Serbs bombed the Chinese embassy?

You know that CIA trained Bin Laden and his men when he was fighting the Russians in Afghanistan?

You saw the people that were celebrating in Lebanon? You would do the same if you would see half the Bagdad destroyed. You brought this to yourself.

I don't support those who did that. Find them and kill them slowly if you can. But you can't pretend the innocent.

Instead of grieving for your losses, you want to retaliate for the fact that they hit you in your home. Thats ARROGANCE.
For after all what is man in nature? A nothing in relation to infinity, all in relation to nothing, a central point between nothing and all and infinitely far from understanding either.
-Blaise Pascal

 

Offline Red5

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 The logical thing to do is not post here... why, why take heart to heart views and opinions of internet people who dont even go by real names ie(Red5, Kazan) Try talking it out at ur campus, or workplace or wherever you mingle
This is my signature

 

Offline Top Gun

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Quote
Originally posted by Red5:
why, why take heart to heart views and opinions of internet people who dont even go by real names ie(Red5, Kazan)

FYI. A lot of people do Know each other by real names here.

[This message has been edited by Top Gun (edited 09-12-2001).]

 

Offline Kazan

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Quote
Originally posted by Snakeseyes:
Yes, you are right, as the civilian targets you hit in Serbia were arranged by them.


F*ck you, i wasn't talking about Serbia
now was i? NO

and i dont think my government and military leaders are saints, far from it.. and DEFENINANTLY DONT TELL ME I DONT KNOW WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT

F*ck you plain and simple, if we we're face to face i'd ask you to take this outside and i would proceed to whip your as$ so hard your
 grandchildren would feel it


When I find out information i know how to find OBJECTIVE information, one of the beauties of the internet

Yes i know who trained Bin Laden and for what

Yes i saw all those people in lebanon, no i would no do the same if half of bagdad was destroyed - unless it was all military targets.

 
Quote
Origionally posted by Snakeseyes:
You brought this to yourself. ... Instead of grieving for your losses, you want to retaliate for the fact that they hit you in your home. Thats ARROGANCE.

YOU UNCARING PIECE OF SH1T I SHOULD F*CKING HUNT YOUR AS$ DOWN AND PUT YOU IN FRONT OF THE FIRING SQUAD!

That's far from arrogance, we ARE greiving for our losses, but we also know that we MUST retaliate.  We have no choice, to do anything less would be to invite another attack..


Close your mouth you ignorant piece of trash
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Offline Kazan

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Quote
Originally posted by Red5:
The logical thing to do is not post here... why, why take heart to heart views and opinions of internet people who dont even go by real names ie(Red5, Kazan) Try talking it out at ur campus, or workplace or wherever you mingle


People here know my real name

if you don't ill repeat it

Derek Meek
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"The Mountains are calling, and I must go" - John Muir

 
Thank you Red5.

Oops!  I guess I do go by my name now don't I  

The fact is that the desire for retaliation and revenge is just a natural part of grieving after an attack such as this.  I should know, I've seen it before (although on a much smaller scale, the few times we got bombed, mortared, shot at, etc, over in Somalia we all felt the same way.)  

This wasn't just a simple industrial accident, this was a large scale military operation carried out by... somebody against targets of great cultural and symbolic signifigance within my country (not to mention the sheer cost in human lives) so of course we want to find the enemy responsible and lash out at them.

Furthurmore, comparing this attack to our own attack against Iraq is revolting.  Prior to all such attacks warnings were issued, and ultimatums made that if complied with would have averted such attacks.  Saddam decided in each and every instance that it would further his own cause to allow the attacks to commence and play spin-doctor to further solidify his own power AND to try and turn us against each other.

As far as attacks within the former Yugoslav republic... no comment.  Where I live the entire operation was not seen in a very good light and as anyone who lived in London or Berlin during 1943-45 can attest, you cannot win a victory by simply bombing the other guys cities.  All that accomplishes is to piss the other guy off and further cement thier resolve against you.  Even the V-2 campaign waged in 1944 did nothing but speed up allied operations in France in anattempt to shut down such operations.  Unfortunately our efforts in the former Yugoslavia did about the same thing, Serbs just sped up the tempo of thier own operations.

Saints?  Hardly...  but there are no saints on the battlements.
I told you that It would be done by November, well, mostly anyway...

I'm working on something new... shhhhh, it's a seceret.

 

Offline KillMeNow

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the chinese embasy was on the target list for bombings why????? becasue someone was payed to slip it into the target list and unfortunatly noone noticed until it was to late - probally more f*cking terrorists - and i think people who seem to suport this bombing and aren't condeming it with every fibre of there being should leave before someone does hunt your ***  down  and kazan or to answer another complaint - derek is right - the western world has to let it known to the world that this is not acceptable and those respocible and those who support the responcible will pay and pay dearly for what they have done - payback is one of the foundations of our civilisation if you commit a crime you will be punished - without that promice there truely would be anarchy - so lets hunt the b*astards down and kill them in as grumsome a manner as possible
ARGHHH

 

Offline morris13

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I've been watching these events unfold almost since they began when I got a call from my fiancee at 7am yesterday morning. This is a horrible horrible situation but I have some thoughts about the issue.

The first thing that comes to my mind is going to get me flamed a lot, I'm sure, but in a certain respect this is a situation the United States has brought upon itself. A quick look around the world makes it fairly clear that there aren't that many countries that have problems with foreign terrorists. The three biggest are probably the United States, Britain, and Israel. The Israeli situation is arguably a continuation of a conflict between Jews and non-jews thats been going on in that part of the world for more than two thousand years.
The United States and Britain have these problems for a very different reason, however. For the past hundred years or so it has been a key part of United States foreign policy that we have a right to interfere in the activities and governments of foriegn countries whenever we feel the need to. Sometimes we have good, virtuous reasons for this. Bosnia is an example. Most of the time its because its in our financial interest to do so, and this is the cause of our suffering. The kind of hatred directed at the United States by other countries is not undeserved. We have a reputation for being arrogant, rich, and manipulative, and this too is deserved. During the 70's and 80's this country supported in governments in Latin America that committed crimes practically rivalling Hitler's. My father spent time in Nicuragua and El Salvador and had his luggage confiscated by the CIA because he had proof of things going on there that then-President Reagan had sworn were'nt going on. We have manipulated and bullied foriegn governments all over the world in order to make American businesses more profitable and this is especially true in the Middle East where our greed for cheap oil has driven the activities there that have caused the hatred we know suffer from most of the Islamic world. I find it horribly ironic and hypocritical that a country that was originally founded on principles of universal human rights now feeds itself by trampling on the rights of people in other countries. Britian's activities in Ireland have brought them into the same position.

Please understand, I am not in any fashion attempting to support or condone the actions of terrorists, but it is important to realize that it is our own crimes that have brought their attentions down upon us. You might consider that nowhere else in the world do citizens have to fear skyscrapers being destroyed. We might take this event as a wake-up call that we cannot exercise our muscles in other countries without a price. It was so in Korea, in Vietnam, and even in Bosnia, but now it is a price being paid more and more by civilians, instead of soldiers.
We are paying for our cheap gasoline and Air Jordans with our own blood now, and perhaps it is time to realize that the financial wealth we have built on the exploitation of those less powerful and less fortunate than ourselves is not worth the price we will have to pay.

Another thing to consider is that it is our very nature as americans that makes us so vulnerable to such acts of terrorism. The comments on El-Al's use of armed gaurds on airlines is well noted and was the first thing I thought about when facts about the hijackings began to come out. It boggles my mind that such destruction was achieved by a handful of men and women armed with KNIVES!!!
One armed gaurd, either uniformed or disguised as a passenger, on each of those four planes could have saved thousands and thousands of lives. This was not the case because we don't want to pay an extra twenty or fifty dollars a trip for the protection of a guard.

Despite the mind-boggling destruction that has occured here, we can only pray that it serves as a wake-up call that we ARE vulnerable, we ARE subject to retaliation, not just as a country but individually, for the activities of our government in foriegn countries, and that if we wish to keep these things from happening again there will be a price that we MUST pay. Both the apparent price of protection, and the more ethereal price of changing the way we do business in the world. We do not have greater rights as a nation because we are rich. We do not have greater rights as a nation because we are strong. Our wealth and strength give us RESPONSIBILITY, not priviledge, to help those in need, rather than help ourselves at their expense.
If it aint broke, break it!

 

Offline delta_7890

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I agree with Killmenow.  we have to set an example to other future threats - if you dare mess with us, you're going to regret it very dearly.
~Delta

 

Offline Nico

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Quote
Originally posted by morris13:
It boggles my mind that such destruction was achieved by a handful of men and women armed with KNIVES!!!

Well, anyway, I can hardly believe that. This info comes from a phone call onboard one of the plane, from a frightened woman, I've heard. She just saw a man killed in front of her, and it's more than likely she mistook what she saw and everything. hell, on FOUR planes, you tell me no passenger tried to stop a guy with a knife? when there was dozens of people in the plane? That's bull****. You're ready to be wounded if you know you'll die if you do nothing.
SCREW CANON!

 

Offline morris13

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Its more than just that. THere were several phone calls from two of the four planes and everybody described knives and box cutters. This has been confirmed in official releases by the government including press conferences by Rumsfeld. I'm sure that part of the reason that nobody tried to overcome the hijackers was because it didn't occur to anybody that they were going to crash the planes.
If it aint broke, break it!

 

Offline Shrike

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Exactly, I was just about to say that.  Generally speaking, highjackers have some ulterior motive, ie flying to Cuba, etc etc.  Suicide flights are not exactly common.
WE ARE HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS. YOU WILL LOWER YOUR FIREWALLS AND SURRENDER YOUR KEYBOARDS. WE WILL ADD YOUR INTELLECTUAL AND VERNACULAR DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN. YOUR FORUMS WILL ADAPT TO SERVICE US. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.

 

Offline Nico

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Quote
Originally posted by morris13:
Its more than just that. THere were several phone calls from two of the four planes and everybody described knives and box cutters. This has been confirmed in official releases by the government including press conferences by Rumsfeld. I'm sure that part of the reason that nobody tried to overcome the hijackers was because it didn't occur to anybody that they were going to crash the planes.

ok, there is two, maybe three guys onboard a plane armed with cutters. There's maube 40 passengers. They kill every crew on the plane, and you would do nothing? you would just wait and see what will happen? 40 peoples are way enough to stop 3 guys armed with knives.

SCREW CANON!

 

Offline Shrike

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Then what?  You have no one who can fly the plane, people bleeding everywhere, dead bodies.... you're ******  anyhow.
WE ARE HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS. YOU WILL LOWER YOUR FIREWALLS AND SURRENDER YOUR KEYBOARDS. WE WILL ADD YOUR INTELLECTUAL AND VERNACULAR DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN. YOUR FORUMS WILL ADAPT TO SERVICE US. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.

 

Offline Nico

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Quote
Originally posted by Shrike:
Then what?  You have no one who can fly the plane, people bleeding everywhere, dead bodies.... you're ******  anyhow.

When they killed the flying crew, the pilot and the copilot were still in the cockpit, according to the news, that's what led them to leave the commands. People would have attmepted something much earlier. I can't believe that on the 4 planes nobody could handle guys armed with knives, that's all. Well, maybe that happened on the 747 abyway, since it missed its target... Bah, anyway, that's talking for nothing...
SCREW CANON!

 

Offline KillMeNow

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if you look back though the islamic faith has always been militant - there holy writing tell them they must go out and conquer the world to convert the heathen etc - they made it into europe and quite  along way into it before the crusaders drove them back - they have always been that way why i dont know perhaps its in there genes that they are fanatical by nature - what ever it is they need to be taught the lessons of the crusades again they need to bedriven back and crushed and perhaps this time we can do ti with suffient force that they enver come back to terrorise the world
ARGHHH