[an0n]

It's arguing semantics.

Sufficed to say that the difference between an execution and a murder is that the execution is done as a punishment. You get a trial, a chance to defend yourself and 20 years to exhonorate yourself.

Murder is simply killing someone because you don't like something they did (or because you're a psycho).

And you can't say the death penalty doesn't work simply because there are still murders. If you removed the death penalty there'd be a damn sight more murders. So while it doesn't totally and wholey keep people from being dicks, it reduces the overall murder rate significantly.

[aldo_14]

Murder-the unlawful taking of anothers life.

The very fact that the Death Penalty is state-sponsored and legal means it is not murder.

That makes rape and torture of prisoners fine so long as the state agrees.

@anon; there's no evidence the death penalty has a role in reducing murders, nor whether any effect it may have is one which is solely limited to execution - it's completely wrong to state it reduces the overall murder rate.  Especially as the death penalty is only applied in 2% of cases in the US (and even assuming murderers expect to be caught and thus that sentencing is a deterrent).
see also; http://www.napa.ufl.edu/oldnews/death1.htm, http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/FactSheet.pdf (page 3; note, potentially biased source), http://web.amnesty.org/pages/deathpenalty-facts-eng (ditto)

[Clave]

Torture may be state-sponsored already, we just don't really know what goes on behind closed doors.

It's almost worse to sentence someone to life than death, but there's not much in it...

[Jetmech Jr.]

That makes rape and torture of prisoners fine so long as the state agrees.

This is news...how? The fact is, "state-sponsored murder" is an oxymoron. However much you may disagree with that.

[Stealth]

Fine, but you've got to admit that the Death Penalty really doesn't work. In the US, it essentially works under the guise that there is indeed a 'hell' after death, and killing them is a suitable punishment because they'll be sent there.

not so.  no matter what religion you are, it's human nature to want to live.  you think every criminal that's on death row that's disputing, appealing, and asking for retrials is doing all that because he's afraid of going to hell after he's executed?  heck no.

[Flipside]

Not only that, to sit back and blithely accept whoever the state claims is deserving of death as actually being so, is an extremely lax and dangerous position to take.

In the case of some people it's easy to hate, in the case of others not so easy, but we always judge by our own sandards, and often with very little idea of the whole story.

[karajorma]

If it were up to me I'd get the people claim that they were for quick executions after a trial to sign an affidavit stating that they wouldn't appeal if ever convicted of a capital crime.

I wonder how many people would be willing to sign up to that.

[aldo_14]

Fine, but you've got to admit that the Death Penalty really doesn't work. In the US, it essentially works under the guise that there is indeed a 'hell' after death, and killing them is a suitable punishment because they'll be sent there.

not so. no matter what religion you are, it's human nature to want to live. you think every criminal that's on death row that's disputing, appealing, and asking for retrials is doing all that because he's afraid of going to hell after he's executed? heck no.

You think every - hell, any - criminal in death row planned to get caught?  And that's excluding the ones who killed 'in the heat of the moment'.

[an0n]

If it were up to me I'd get the people claim that they were for quick executions after a trial to sign an affidavit stating that they wouldn't appeal if ever convicted of a capital crime.

I wonder how many people would be willing to sign up to that.

That has no bearing on anything.

[karajorma]

Yeah it does.

 The fact is that the people who complain the most about the need to execute straight after sentencing would be the first to demand as many appeals as possible if they were convicted. And it's the appeals that lead to people spending 20-30 years on Death Row.

I'd just like to see people put their money where their mouth is on this issue cause so many people spout off about how come executions should be quick but I doubt they'd be as happy if they knew that if they were wrongfully convicted they'd be the first up against the wall.

[ionia23]

That's why my "death of humanity" sentence is a much more viable alternative to the death sentence.  It's the same thing as "special custody" (23 hours a day in a small room, lights always on, little human contact, etc) but with a few revisions:

No direct human contact with the exception of guard intervention and health care provision.
No verbal/visual visitation except for human rights watchdogs (to ensure you are still alive), clergy, and legal counsel (through plexiglass)
No written correspondence, except legal counsel.
No reading or writing materials
No music
No television.
No personal items in the cells, save your bedding, paper gown, and slippers.
No windows.
Lights always on.
Cell confinement 23 hours a day.
1 hour per day for escort to a shower and exercise room.

And..that's it.  You get your life.

Compensation for the wrongly sentenced will include psychological care, financial compensation of $100,000 dollars (after taxes) per year of sentence, and a formal written and visual (televised) apology and retraction by the sentencing judge and prosecution, if available.  Copies will be provided for the wrongly convicted in case anyone in the future has any question as to the innocence of said-person.

Voila, problem solved.  That ought to settle people down.

[aldo_14]

I'd put a value of over $100,000 on a year of my life (try priceless...). myself.

I think that'd ('death of humanity') be a bad idea. 

You're not getting anything for your money.  Let prisoners do labour (whatever is possible within the restrictions recuired for security); not only can it be said to be humane in the sense of giving them some form of distraction, it's also an equivalent to a normal person having to work to pay for their keep.

Plus it'd be technically classed as torture, and I'd like to think non-criminal people should be beyond that.  I believe in proper life sentences for murder, and that prisons shouldn't be like luxury hotels (I'm not sure they are in any case), but I also think the point of that type of (unending) incarceration is about repaying a debt to society (wherease for limited sentences it is or should be also about rehabilitation) and that denying people any degree of humanity doesn't help in that sense.  I'd guess a person in constant solitary would also swiftly go completely nuts, which would just cost money to treat and/or control them.  Plus they'd likely be a danger to guards (or any others) in the 1 hour of day they get 'outside'.

And if you really do want to torture them, maybe you should give them a window......

[Cobra]

i can't believe some of you people sympathize with Williams. He founded a lethal gang, was convicted of 4 or more shotgun murders (they can blow your ****ing face off, man!), theft, and a couple of other charges that i can't remember of, or if there are any more charges. as karajorma said, just because you say "I'm sorry i did it," doesn't mean you can duck your sentence.

The only reason he said "I regret those acts" and wrote the children's books was to get his sorry ass out of jail and join up with his homies and kill more.

Good riddance, I say.

[karajorma]

Who's saying we're sympathetic to Williams? The man is a scumbag and should have been left to rot in jail for the rest of his life.

My objection to the death penalty has always been the fact that you can end up executing people who are later proved innocent or who can be proved to have been mentally ill at the time of the crime. If we're killing only the guilty then I'd have no objection but that's a purely hypothetical thing and I can't see any system being infallible.

You're confusing the objection that people like Aldo and myself have for the principle of a death penalty with sympathy for an individual who in the hypothetical situation i described above probably would have deserved it.

[vyper]

(they can blow your ****ing face off, man!)

.... I'm sorry, tha absolute banality and comic value of that statement made me giggle like a schoolgirl.

Seriously Cobra, would you expect us to be less abivilant if it only put a bullet hole in your temple?

[Mefustae]

That's why my "death of humanity" sentence is a much more viable alternative to the death sentence.  It's the same thing as "special custody" (23 hours a day in a small room, lights always on, little human contact, etc) but with a few revisions:

No direct human contact with the exception of guard intervention and health care provision.
No verbal/visual visitation except for human rights watchdogs (to ensure you are still alive), clergy, and legal counsel (through plexiglass)
No written correspondence, except legal counsel.
No reading or writing materials
No music
No television.
No personal items in the cells, save your bedding, paper gown, and slippers.
No windows.
Lights always on.
Cell confinement 23 hours a day.
1 hour per day for escort to a shower and exercise room.

And..that's it.  You get your life.

Compensation for the wrongly sentenced will include psychological care, financial compensation of $100,000 dollars (after taxes) per year of sentence, and a formal written and visual (televised) apology and retraction by the sentencing judge and prosecution, if available.  Copies will be provided for the wrongly convicted in case anyone in the future has any question as to the innocence of said-person.

Voila, problem solved.  That ought to settle people down.

Screw sentencing criminals with this "death of humanity" of yours, what you have just described could be the most amazing Reality Show ever devised! Tune in every night to see the challenger trying to keep his sanity as he is kept inside a white cube devoid of all comforts save a small bed and a treadmill for exercise, with no outside stimulus aside from nutritional supplements; nothing fancy, just the bare bones of what is needed to remain healthy (physically, at least), which means nothing that tastes even remotely good. For every week the challenger is able to live inside the cube and retain his sanity, he gets $250,000 after tax, with a bonus $500,000 if he makes it through a month. Of course, the challenger will have to sign away all rights and any ability to press charges should they actually go insane inside the cube, so this will likely be based soley in the United States.

[ionia23]

See, that's the thing.  My recommended method is most definately (and obviously) not about rehabilitiation.  Neither is the death penalty as it is now.  What I have postulated is something as close as possible to a 'reversable' death penalty.

Well, minus the tremendous amount of psychological damage that would ensue.

Then again, avoiding going to such places is easy. Don't do stuff that gets you put in.  You know?

[aldo_14]

i can't believe some of you people sympathize with Williams. He founded a lethal gang, was convicted of 4 or more shotgun murders (they can blow your ****ing face off, man!), theft, and a couple of other charges that i can't remember of, or if there are any more charges. as karajorma said, just because you say "I'm sorry i did it," doesn't mean you can duck your sentence.

The only reason he said "I regret those acts" and wrote the children's books was to get his sorry ass out of jail and join up with his homies and kill more.

Good riddance, I say.

Are you familiar with the concept of a 'principle'?  Y'know, a deeply held belief on what is morally right and wrong that remains constant?

[WMCoolmon]

Sorry, aldo, I don't see where you're going with that...

I disagree with the death penalty in principle, but at the same time I haven't really come up with or heard a much better way to deal with it. I can't imagine what it would be like to spend 20 years in a little white room with basically no human contact...I'd probably go insane. When you're talking about trying to make sure that the innocent don't get irreversibly executed, it's not a big diff.

On the other hand, if you lighten up the 'death penalty' enough, you just make it less of a deal to get it.

[Roanoke]

Bring back National Service. Though, training a murder to use an Assault Rifle probably isn't without it's drawbacks....