Author Topic: The Future of RTS Games (screens)  (Read 2540 times)

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Offline Flaser

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Re: The Future of RTS Games (screens)
i'll be happy when they manage to combine the gameplay of Homeworld with the Universe building Elements of Imperium Galactica, and have a program that allows you to create your own units/weapons/buildings/resources etc and make them available to download (i.e. Similar to the Mod support of UT, but easier to Mod) that actually ships with the game and doesn't require a Phd in programming to use ;)

That way you could start on a planet, build up that planet and then slowly crawl across the Galaxy like IG or MoO, have massive interfleet battles with custom researched/designed weapons, similar to Homeworld. Anyone who's played Hegemonia will know what it shouldn't play like ;)

THEN I will be happy ;)

The game will utterly fail - that was Imperium Galactica 2.
Don't get me wrong - the concept is very good, you just can't manage it all.

If you want smg. like that that's still somewhat manageable download Reunion from HOTU. Made by the same team with all the concepts you quoted.

Hegemonia is actually a very good game - Digital Reality finally realised the inteface limitations - and focused on the strategy / tactical aspects of the game. You may not have liked it, but the general consensus is, it *is* a good tactical game if you're willing to learn the ropes. Ergo learn how to do tactice/strategic stuff - it's like chess. Knowing the rules is by no means enough, there's a myriad things to know about the game to bring the best out of it.

For the concept to suceed with a sensible tactical battlefield you will need Lieutenant AIs, that you can assign to specific tasks, and governors to control your planets. Otherwise it simply won't work.
"I was going to become a speed dealer. If one stupid fairytale turns out to be total nonsense, what does the young man do? If you answered, “Wake up and face reality,” you don’t remember what it was like being a young man. You just go to the next entry in the catalogue of lies you can use to destroy your life." - John Dolan

 

Offline Flipside

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Re: The Future of RTS Games (screens)
Actually, I'd even include production and trade between worlds as an influencing factor in such a game, as well as combat. I don't think it 'can't' be done, after all, Homeworld has been done, and so has MoO etc, so the two facilities are there.
I think the micromanaging was taken overboard in MoO and IG though, most leaders don't set, for example, the amount of money for a particular research, that's why they hire Cabinet ministers, who hire advisers, who hire consultant scientists etc, so whilst you could choose the general direction of research, you could allow race characteristics to define what they actually discover, it means a massive tech tree but you would only travel down 'twigs', some races simply will not think up certain ideas (the rules change for captured stuff).

As for fleet combat, theres no real reason why, using graphics at homeworld level, it could not have supported much larger fleets on modern computers, indeed, Nexus:The Jupiter Incident was actually the graphics engine for exactly that, for Imperium Galactica. So theres no real reason why combat could not be represented in such a way, without resource gathering, but with asteroids and other navigational elements. You'd have to vary the game pace on the events at hand, if you want high levels of fleet-strategy, then you need micromanagement at the cost of combat content, what I'm thinking of though limits the players control over a planets infrastructure, but still allows enough freedom to choose the direction of play, the content of your fleets and the direction of research.

It also means that new modded weapons and guns can be simply 'glued' onto the current tech trees, so only  certain race-types could research certain hulls etc.

Yes, I've thought about this a lot ;)

 

Offline aldo_14

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Re: The Future of RTS Games (screens)
There's nothing that can't be done without a bit of hard work and lateral thinking.

Except Duke Nukem Forever.  That ****s doomed, man.

 

Offline Flipside

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Re: The Future of RTS Games (screens)
The 'Forever' was as much a policy statement as part of the name ;)

 

Offline Ransom

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Re: The Future of RTS Games (screens)
come to think of it, I do recall a RTS game with excellent AI - what was it called (lost tje Cd, but it was a damn good game9.. I think Conflict: something.
Conflict: Frontier Wars. That game was hilarious thanks to the various silly things certain characters said.

'The bear has left the woods!'

 

Offline Cobra

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Re: The Future of RTS Games (screens)
I'd probably have a coronary trying to play that. I played the demo to Earth 2160 and just about had a heart-attack not knowing what all the rest of my units were doing. I seriously was white-knuckling my mouse when I started to get a tension headache from playing the game. :eek: New RTS's are not for me, regardless of how good they look. It sure is a nice advancement of technology though, and I think it's pretty awesome. I just dont have the "micro" for these games anymore.

*cough*wuss*cough* :p

these games are exactly what i look for in RTS games. i just don't have the friggin' hardware for them. :hopping:
To consider the Earth as the only populated world in infinite space is as absurd as to assert that in an entire field of millet, only one grain will grow. - Metrodorus of Chios
I wept. Mysterious forces beyond my ken had reached into my beautiful mission and energized its pilots with inhuman bomb-firing abilities. I could only imagine the GTVA warriors giving a mighty KIAAIIIIIII shout as they worked their triggers, their biceps bulging with sinew after years of Ivan Drago-esque steroid therapy and weight training. - General Battuta

 

Offline Flaser

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Re: The Future of RTS Games (screens)
Actually, I'd even include production and trade between worlds as an influencing factor in such a game, as well as combat. I don't think it 'can't' be done, after all, Homeworld has been done, and so has MoO etc, so the two facilities are there.
I think the micromanaging was taken overboard in MoO and IG though, most leaders don't set, for example, the amount of money for a particular research, that's why they hire Cabinet ministers, who hire advisers, who hire consultant scientists etc, so whilst you could choose the general direction of research, you could allow race characteristics to define what they actually discover, it means a massive tech tree but you would only travel down 'twigs', some races simply will not think up certain ideas (the rules change for captured stuff).

As for fleet combat, theres no real reason why, using graphics at homeworld level, it could not have supported much larger fleets on modern computers, indeed, Nexus:The Jupiter Incident was actually the graphics engine for exactly that, for Imperium Galactica. So theres no real reason why combat could not be represented in such a way, without resource gathering, but with asteroids and other navigational elements. You'd have to vary the game pace on the events at hand, if you want high levels of fleet-strategy, then you need micromanagement at the cost of combat content, what I'm thinking of though limits the players control over a planets infrastructure, but still allows enough freedom to choose the direction of play, the content of your fleets and the direction of research.

It also means that new modded weapons and guns can be simply 'glued' onto the current tech trees, so only  certain race-types could research certain hulls etc.

Yes, I've thought about this a lot ;)


My main concen is not with hardware or micromanagement issues.
I don't say it can't be done - it can't be done how RTS-es are made nowadays.

My main gripe is the lack of a capable Lieutenant AI and a Admiral/General level interface.
The later is even more important - it's time we forgot 'simple' point and click.
Whay your job should consist of is assigning objectives than handing them out to different battlegroups to achieve them. The actual gameplay part would be the variations on said objectives.

Right now only two objectives exist: move/advance/flee in terror & attack/capture/annihilate.
Nothing complicated, nothing that would grant you the flexibility needed for a true strategy, you're bogged down with tactical difficulties and tactics are nothing more than exploiting certain map features and herding your troops to said feature like sheep and keeping them from going off on their own.

In a true RTS I don't want to deal with that. If I gave an objective to my colonel - take the ridge North of town Vandero, purge out resistance, dig in and set up a perimeter than that's all I should have to do.
The AI would first conduct scouting on its own, asses the enemy's troops and installations - crossreference it with earlier Intel reports and send me a report of their own they differ too much, and warn me if they believe the objective far fetched (too much predicted losses, concerns over resuplying and/or lack of supply lines to evacuate) - then it would devise its own objectives (attack these troops, harrass those, sneak there....ect.) than hands said objectives down to his Lieutenants...and so on until it's just a grunt with the objective of taking that damn bridge.

The 'game' on the players part comes from the variety of objectives he can assign - harrasment, scouting, sneak attack, fast deployment, entrenchment ect. ect.
Beside you'd have the now 'standard' setting for engagement tactics to *refine* said objectives.

When commanding smaller troops and/or doing tactical command I'd like to furbish my own battlemethods before the actual battle so I don't have to micro-manage juggle all my troops in the heat of the battle.

1) Creating battleplans.

Forget the damn fog of war! Once the area is known - or I have a map for heaven's sake I should no longer have to deal with the treachearous terrain hiding 'suprises'. It should be the enemy who suprises me with having hided that long in the mud.
Give me intelligence reports for Christ's sake! Telling me the NMI is hiding out there is a big help. Telling me that armor collums were seen marching through Braska and there are infantry entreched at the river is a lot more specific. Adding stuff like telling that said unit is likely the 17th Gravediggers known for guerilla tactics is icing on the cake, but you get the drift.

Given all those data, you don't start point-n-click managing the battle.
First you set up the objectives. Then you're given the ability to determine how the commanders react if something pops up - ergo set up the next objective if they suceed, the retreat plan if they don't.
Radio rules - you shouldn't see *all* your troops *all of the time*, only the ones directly under your control with direct communication.

So actually before the battle start I should be able to drop objectives onto the map, then write scripts for my commanders.

Beside those reactive scripts I should also have the ability to define triggers - so instead reassigning a new objective to everyone once I have drawn the enemy out, I can merly yell - "Barbeating!" - in the radio and my troops start fleeing toward my core forces who were in hiding so far.

2) Training

I don't want training to be mere stats - I want to actually be able to preset/create tactics for my forces.
This could be preset battleplans the commanders use on their own.
Formation setup, breakup; covering fire; fire zone allocation; retreat priorities; regroup priorities and methods all fall under this category.
"I was going to become a speed dealer. If one stupid fairytale turns out to be total nonsense, what does the young man do? If you answered, “Wake up and face reality,” you don’t remember what it was like being a young man. You just go to the next entry in the catalogue of lies you can use to destroy your life." - John Dolan

 

Offline Mefustae

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Re: The Future of RTS Games (screens)
@ Mefustae: Blitzkreig 2 brings GeForce 7800GTX cards to the teens of FPS. :shaking:
Are you kidding?! Every mission in the campaign has run reasonably well (with a few slowdowns in missions like taking Berlin, but that's to be expected), and my machine is well over 3 years old, with a GeForce4 Ti4200, 512Mb RAM, and an astoundingly average P4 2.4 GHz! Albeit, it's not on its highest graphics settings, but it still looks and plays great!

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: The Future of RTS Games (screens)
rts games have no future, unless they release starcraft 2 :D
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

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