Author Topic: The Future of RTS Games (screens)  (Read 2538 times)

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Offline Dark RevenantX

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The Future of RTS Games (screens)
For a long time, I was disappointed by the RTS games (not to mention the sudden blast of WW2 games) that didn't live up to what they were meant to be.  We need more RTS games with the quality and lasting value that Starcraft had.  Some people are STILL playing it en masse, even though it's older than FS2.  A lot of RTS games lately have been below the bar set for them.  I also got bored of all these WW2 games coming out, mainly because most of them aren't all that good.  The WW2 RTS games look like crap and or are WAY too realistic (how am I supposed to know how long that soldier's gun barrel is?)

The upcoming Feburary 1 release, Company of Heroes, hopefully will be the messiah of RTS, and possibly WW2 games.  The game looks like a detailed FPS with it's new Esscence engine with some Havok 3.0 physics features.

The basic soldiers have about 2,000 animations.  They have animations for just about every mood and stance imaginable.  They aren't just mindless pawns on a virtual battlefield, they are "real" soldiers fighting for you in a "real" little town somewhere in France.  Battles have a good blend between realism and gameplay.  If something doesn't seem realistic in the game, it would probably be because it helps the gameplay.  Also, the environment is the most destructable ever created.  EVERYTHING can be destroyed.  Even the little barrels on the ground can be blasted to pieces.  The little piano on the street can lend your troops some cover for a small while.  Demolition people can throw explosives into a building.  When the explosives explode, debris go flying, and the building loses a large chunk of itself.  If you hit an already weakened building or hit a very key part in it, it would also collapse.  Buildings realalisticly collapse at appropriate times.  The building damage is not pre-determened.  The debris don't sink into the ground by most games.  Every bit of destroyed stuff lends some permenent cover for your soldiers.  Note the lower image.  Before the battle started, everything in that scene was in perfect shape.  Also, tanks have some real power.  Not only do they level buildings with their cannons, they can drive through walls and other structures.  Have a pesky wall in the way?  Drive through it!  Artillery strikes are actually deadly in this game.  You can lose most of your company when you get hit without cover.  The physics engine handles destruction well.  If the town doesn't look like it went through a war, then you did something very, very wrong.

There is a 12 min gameplay video of it here (the top video)

I am looking foward to Company of Heroes, it hope it will be a new standard for RTS games.

How do you feel about it?

 

Offline Mefustae

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Re: The Future of RTS Games (screens)
1/ Have you played 'Blitzkrieg 2', which I find to be one of the best WWII RTS games i've ever played.

2/ This looks pretty good, but doesn't appeal to me, as I like to command vast, vast, vast legions of troops... vast. Hence, I find bigger games like 'Rise of Nations' or the upcoming 'Supreme Commander' (Spiritual sequel to the 'Total Annihilation' games') much more appealing to me, you should check 'em out.

This does look pretty damn good however, and i'm sure it'll be so good, it won't even begin to run on my system. Hooray!

 

Offline Singh

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Re: The Future of RTS Games (screens)
It can be as visually and physically impressive as possible.

But if its not as balanced or fun to play as Starcraft, then it wont matter at all.
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Offline Unknown Target

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Re: The Future of RTS Games (screens)
Homeworld was the most innovative RTS I've played, and the most fun :) But this does look interesting :)

 

Offline Ghost

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Re: The Future of RTS Games (screens)
Jesus Christ! That looks insane! Those are every bit as good as COD1 graphics, but it's RTS? That's really really insane. I would buy this for the sole purpose of learning to play strategy games. That looks INCREDIBLE. Good find.
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Re: The Future of RTS Games (screens)
It's about time some of those advanced physics and graphics systems from fps games trickled down to the rts department. This looks to be awesome :cool:

That said, homeworld is still better :nod:

 

Offline Fragrag

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Re: The Future of RTS Games (screens)
So it's like Heroes of World War 2? Only bigger
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Offline FireCrack

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Re: The Future of RTS Games (screens)
second shot makes it look like WWI
actualy, mabye not.
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Offline Roanoke

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Re: The Future of RTS Games (screens)
what, with a Tiger Tank ?

 

Offline Prophet

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Re: The Future of RTS Games (screens)
I wont be interested until I hear that from someone who actually played it... Regarding the physics; this isn't exactly the first game ever to boast how "interactive" the world is and how realisticly it blows to pieces. Thought Silent Storm and AoE3 have pretty groovy physics, I'll still wait for the critics before I pee in my pants for this game.

Assuming the hype is correct (about details&physics&etc) it will be insanely stressful for hardware to be calculating all that.

Furthermore; I am really getting tired of WWII games (exept those that involve Finland :D ). There are plenty of wars where people have died! Could I have WWI next, please? Or Zulu wars? How about a first person shooter about the american war of independence? Or controlling marine boarding party in the Earth-Mars war?
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Offline aldo_14

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Re: The Future of RTS Games (screens)
Yay, WW2!

I don't really care about graphics in an RTS game, to be honest.  Not beyond a certain degree, i.e. the point where you can depict a decent number of soldiers/tanks/etc that look like 'wot they is meant to be'.  So, like, HDR on RTS', or hyper real water ripples - not the future of RTS games IMO.

Obviously, physics affecting the gameplay is another issue.

Although WW1; not a good setting for RTS.  Dig a trench.  Sit.  Get trenchfoot.  Suicidal charge.  Back to trench.  Sit.  Get trenchfoot.  etc.

 

Offline Lt.Cannonfodder

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Re: The Future of RTS Games (screens)
So it's like Heroes of World War 2? Only bigger
If it's even remotely as good as Heroes, I'll be byuing it. Plus I can enjoy all the great eyecandy with my upcoming new computer  ;7

 

Offline Mr. Vega

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Re: The Future of RTS Games (screens)
Total War Series> all other terrestrial RTS's
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Offline Flaser

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Re: The Future of RTS Games (screens)
Micromanagement Nightmare

The reason I'm fed up with most RTS games recently made is that they don't make any more strategic/tactical sense then Dune 2 did.
Granted the graphics are pretty, and there's 'physics'; but beyond that it's same old...same old.
I'm looking for some sort of initiative like Point Defense Systems for Homeworld 2.

One word summarizes the problem: micromanagement. Ergo, your units are often way too dumb.
Starcraft was excelent because it realised this limitation and taylored everything to match it - so you hadn't had that may units, but they could be played out in unique manners - the best parallel is chess.
Homeworld also hit a soft-spot, though the game invariable deteoriated into frigate/capshipt face-offs as once again only those units were really suited to the mircomanaging interface. (Homeworld 2 took the right step with its strikegroups, but failed to carry it through.)

If they're ever to make a 'realistic' tactical/strategy game, lieutenant AIs will have to be introduced into the game AI that allow the player to efficiently manage his forces. Anything else will be a cleverly disguised game of chess.

I see two apporaches to the problem:

a) Battlefield commander - Battlezone did the best damn solution up to date, it was indeed way ahead its time. Operation Flashpoint also did it well, and could have been a lot more strategic with a more innovative interface.
Simply put you abolish the 'god-view' with all its management problems and stick the player in the field of battle and thereby limit his influence and or information-flow to a realitic and humanly manageable level.  // This method is taylored for squad level / individual unit based command.

b) Map-commander. You recieve reports and or data-feeds from various sources. The battlefield before your eyes is a mere representation built up from all those sources. // This method is taylored for commanding companies and squads.

Both approaches demand a battle AI that makes decisions on its own, and reacts to the its situation with an active stance. Right now battlefield AI is restricted to trigger fringer reflexes along with the blind hound routine.
It's about time to realise that the new command system will have to abandon the mere point-and-click apporach.
setting up proper scouting sweeps, breakthroughs or just a plain defensive net is impossible if you have to lead each and every unit by the hand.

Strategy not mere Tactics!
Recently I found an old gem - War Inc. The game had a really ****ty combat AI and a poor interface; however its two-phase apporach is the best damn thing since X-Com.
There is a strategic layer, where you move your strikeforces between objectives and your base - once you merge with an objective point (place to raze, recapture ect.) or a hostile force the game drops down to a C&C-Clone tactical map to resolve the battle.

This simple innovation immersly changed the way I had to fight battles. No resourcing, no manufacturing, only units, ammo and a situation I had to crack with the assets I brought - or call it a day and retreat, which was often the clever thing to do.
When you have this 'long-term' view and always keep the big picture in your head; completly abolishes the conventional war-of-total-annihilation that plagues all the Real-Time-Tactical games played nowadays.

There's no such thing as big-enough battlefield. However smacking everything into the same map won't do any good. It's time we realise the difference between stategic and tactical view.
This two-phase aproach is very rudimentary, but it's about time something similar is done.


I don't have high hopes but Battlefield Commander promises to deliver in the second category. I just hope the developer have the sensibility to ressurect the AI from TA and upgrade it to new standards.
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Offline aldo_14

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Re: The Future of RTS Games (screens)
There's already at least one game with that sort of segemented approach.  It's a homeware (for lack of the proper term) US Civil War battle game.  Basically you can play a number of fixed 'roles' with varying ability to micromanage.  For example, as a general you can order a unit to simply hold a ridge, but not micromanage them (such as their exact positions).  Or, you can be the commander of the unit that holds said ridge and micromanage that defense; but it's an AI general that will give you orders.

Apparently it's pretty cool and works really well in action.

 

Offline Sandwich

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Re: The Future of RTS Games (screens)
They aren't just mindless pawns on a virtual battlefield, they are "real" soldiers fighting for you in a "real" little town somewhere in France.
They said that about that Lord of the Rings game, Battle for Middle Earth, too. I never saw it (I mean I played the game, but never saw the "real" soldiers aspect they touted). Also, if it's being fought in a little town somewhere in France, does that mean that the only sides are Americans and UK vs. the Germans and Italians? :p
Even the little barrels on the ground can be blasted to pieces.
Haven't little barrels on the ground always been blastable? In fact, I can think of numerous RTS games where the little barrels on the ground are the only environmental element that can be "blasted". :p

Sorry, couldn't help myself. :p

That said, it does look good. :yes:
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Offline Cobra

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Re: The Future of RTS Games (screens)
what, with a Tiger Tank ?

you're thinking of WW2.

anyway, i like the way this looks. damaged buildings and the like, woo!

@ Mefustae: Blitzkreig 2 brings GeForce 7800GTX cards to the teens of FPS. :shaking:

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Offline Nix

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Re: The Future of RTS Games (screens)
I'd probably have a coronary trying to play that.  I played the demo to Earth 2160 and just about had a heart-attack not knowing what all the rest of my units were doing.  I seriously was white-knuckling my mouse when I started to get a tension headache from playing the game.   :eek:  New RTS's are not for me, regardless of how good they look.  It sure is a nice advancement of technology though, and I think it's pretty awesome.  I just dont have the "micro" for these games anymore. 

 

Offline Flipside

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Re: The Future of RTS Games (screens)
i'll be happy when they manage to combine the gameplay of Homeworld with the Universe building Elements of Imperium Galactica, and have a program that allows you to create your own units/weapons/buildings/resources etc and make them available to download (i.e. Similar to the Mod support of UT, but easier to Mod) that actually ships with the game and doesn't require a Phd in programming to use ;)

That way you could start on a planet, build up that planet and then slowly crawl across the Galaxy like IG or MoO, have massive interfleet battles with custom researched/designed weapons, similar to Homeworld. Anyone who's played Hegemonia will know what it shouldn't play like ;)

THEN I will be happy ;)

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: The Future of RTS Games (screens)
i'll be happy when they manage to combine the gameplay of Homeworld with the Universe building Elements of Imperium Galactica, and have a program that allows you to create your own units/weapons/buildings/resources etc and make them available to download (i.e. Similar to the Mod support of UT, but easier to Mod) that actually ships with the game and doesn't require a Phd in programming to use ;)

That way you could start on a planet, build up that planet and then slowly crawl across the Galaxy like IG or MoO, have massive interfleet battles with custom researched/designed weapons, similar to Homeworld. Anyone who's played Hegemonia will know what it shouldn't play like ;)

THEN I will be happy ;)

you and me botzh..heheh


come to think of it, I do recall a RTS game with excellent AI - what was it called (lost tje Cd, but it was a damn good game9.. I think Conflict: something.
It was a space rts where you built vast fleets and each star system was a separate map, connected to other system via jump-points. and you played on all of htem at once!
you could build admirals shuttles and assign thme to you battlegroups and they would lead it, and do they job well.
Once an admiral led the battlegroup, razed an enemy base with minimal losses and returen to ressuply and repair - I couldn't belive it..

lol
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