Author Topic: Idea about damage  (Read 4119 times)

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Now, this came from kinda what I said over in the now-closed HTL thread in General Freespace.

My idea.  Say, you're flying a herc, and you pummel an Argo transport.  Say, when the hull gets down below 75%, the skin changes, to show more damage being done.  It gets below 50%, and it looks like it's really taking a pounding.  and 25%, and it's in deep ****.  Now, add that to the already existing flame effects and the decals, and there's my idea. 

Now, would having different skins to correspond to damage put too much of a load on machines like mine?  Would loading times be horrible?  Or would it just be a marginal change?

Thoughts?
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Offline BlackDove

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Geomod of course.

 

Offline Unknown Target

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Actually, that's not geomod, and it's not such a bad idea. Not sure if it's possible though, sounds like a lot of coding.

 

Offline Prophet

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What about the damage decals thing? How finished is that piece of code?
I remember seeing it in X-Wing Alliance, but have not yet seen it in Freespace...  :nod:
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Offline Fineus

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The trick of course is to get it working smoothly. Technically all you're doing is substituting one skin for another (which I believe can already be done via SEXP) - but to get it working on all ships? That could take a lot of juice.

Perhaps if the number of skins were specified depending on ships size... that could help. Fighters have two skins - fine and damaged. At 50% they swap "fine" for "damaged" untill the fighter is destroyed. Same with bombers. Cruisers could have 3 skins... Corvettes / Destroyers 4 and Jugganauts could have 4+ depending on what people want out of it. That way you're not having too many skins changes on screen at any one time.

 

Offline Nuke

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i dont know, every game ive seen damage skins in it sorta looked cheap.
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Offline Solatar

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You've gotta watch it though, because every ship will get damaged in exactly the same way. Also, it might look kinda odd if you have a perfectly in health looking fighter, then you shoot it with a single laser and it all of a sudden looks horribly damaged all over.

 

Offline BlackDove

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The only way to not make it look stupid is to have Geomod, which is impossible.

Because let's face it, the purpose of the game is to destroy stuff and watch stuff being destroyed. The skin will always look the same, meaning ships get ripped up in the same way over and over again.

What Bob was doing with the damage showing on fighters etc. is probably best, but I have no idea how far along that code is and what it is capable of.

  
Damage decals will work.

A better idea is to make your ship nuilt op out of subobjects, and make all those destroyable. Don't go OTT there, though, since each subobject is heavy on rendering, but you can make some stuff destroyable that way.
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Offline WMCoolmon

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i dont know, every game ive seen damage skins in it sorta looked cheap.

Damage decals will work.

A better idea is to make your ship nuilt op out of subobjects, and make all those destroyable. Don't go OTT there, though, since each subobject is heavy on rendering, but you can make some stuff destroyable that way.

At least IMHO.
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Offline Taristin

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i dont know, every game ive seen damage skins in it sorta looked cheap.

:nod:

Aaaaaannnnnnddd. I'm not gonna be the one to make damage maps. Nor will I ask lightspeed to do it. So... yeah. Have fun.
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Offline WeatherOp

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It would look good if you could apply a glowmap to the decals, making them glow red, or add animated ones to make it spark about. Since there are only 3 types of decal, maybe it wouldn't hurt FRs that bad.
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Offline Trivial Psychic

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In the early days of when Bob added the dammage decal system (not the first time, but when the current system was added), I was discussing ideas with him about how to do decals for beams and other heavy weapons.  I thought that beams should be able to pierce the outer hull and cause melting of the dammaged section.  I had an idea, where each ship would have a special dammage glowmap (perhaps animated), that would be rendered behind the main map.  Whenever the ship was hit by a heavy weapon, it would apply a large dammage decal, but the center of that would be an alpha map, and reveal the section of the dammaged glowmap beneath.  The problems with beam dammage decals, is how to display dammage for type 1 beams, or glancing hits from other times, where the hit point isn't one, but a series of impact points along a path.  Since the frequency of beam hits differs depending on the speed of the machine (and the strain its undergoing at the time), a type 1 (slash) hit would look like a varying number of single hits in a line along the hull, rather than the swath of destruction we'd want to see.  There'd need to be a special method of calculating the path of the hit, rather than the individual beam hits of one volley.
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Offline Nuke

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you can sorta do that already with the burn feature and some art skills. ive been using decals for a bullet hole effect with my gatling guns. im not really satisfied with the way they render though, might jkust have something to do with the pis poor quality of my effects (they were rush jobs). if the decals supported glow and shine maps you could make realistic looking melting effects, all be it 2d but from a distance it would apear normal. another feature id like to see is spiecies or armor type specific decals, cause disintegrated vasudan bioarmor will look different than melted teran metal armor. perhaps define the different decals in spiecies defs, each spiecies would get a number of different decal effects. like for beams, missiles, lasers, ballistic. then in the weapon you specify a type and radius, and it will use the decal for the spicies hit and the decal type. it gives some more variation. i think the decal system is sorta still in experimental stage, thats where the feature toggle is. im already using them in my mod so im kinda hoping their rendering will be improved sometime in the near future. also the ability to set decal prioritys would be cool, you want your beam damage on capships to linger, but burn marks on fighters woud fade sooner. the engine, when it needs to clear some decals, will clear the ones with low priority first, allowing more importand decals to linger.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2005, 03:26:43 am by Nuke »
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Offline DaBrain

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I think having three sets of full-size maps for each ship is too much. I think it might actually look nice and I love to create stuff for high-end systems, but this isn't worth the addional memory usage.

We got damage decals. That's just fine. I've disabled them, cause the always drained too much performance for my taste.


And now to all the Geomod fans out there:

I don't think the engine will support this ever.

But maybe bumpmapping will make you happy. Damage decals with bumpmaps should be enough to simulate holes in the hull.

I already have a concept  for this. ;) Just in case...
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Offline Fineus

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Heh, I was wrong.

You're right... having the ship map randomly change at 50% would look terrible if it happened right infront of the player. Much better to have decals coresponding to where weapons fire have hit the ship.

The trick would be to have the weapons fire decals correctly represent what weapon has hit the ship. If a beam has slashed a Deimos then it should leave a scar across where it has moved. However if the beam is of the straight-firing variety (BFGreen for example) then it should leave a much more damaged but centralised scar where it hit the ship. Other fire like player guns (Kayser, Subach etc.) should leave a different mark again.

The problem there is that it quickly mounts up to a lot of decals. Very CPU intensive even if there are only between 15 and 50 types of different damage decal.

 

Offline Singh

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Heh, I was wrong.

You're right... having the ship map randomly change at 50% would look terrible if it happened right infront of the player. Much better to have decals coresponding to where weapons fire have hit the ship.

The trick would be to have the weapons fire decals correctly represent what weapon has hit the ship. If a beam has slashed a Deimos then it should leave a scar across where it has moved. However if the beam is of the straight-firing variety (BFGreen for example) then it should leave a much more damaged but centralised scar where it hit the ship. Other fire like player guns (Kayser, Subach etc.) should leave a different mark again.

The problem there is that it quickly mounts up to a lot of decals. Very CPU intensive even if there are only between 15 and 50 types of different damage decal.

Why not just have the slash beam use a single decal map, instead of several decals in a row? Some coding would be needing to make sure the 'orientation' of the Decal matched the direction of slash, but after that, it'd work, I think.
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Offline Fineus

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As long as the graphic was good, and the computer worked out that it should draw the length of the decal to be the correct length of the slash - yeah - it could well work.

 

Offline Nuke

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do it the samew way racing games do skidmarks. cept instead of burnt rubber, its molten metal bliss. perhaps for looks terminate the ends with scorchmarks and maybe a few along the slash for good measure.
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Offline Prophet

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perhaps for looks terminate the ends with scorchmarks and maybe a few along the slash for good measure.
Needlessly stacking multiple decals is a big nono. Takes system resources...

BTW. I vote for some kind of slider in the laucher that could be used to limit the amout of decals. Or that only everyother decal is draw. Or something. So that those low-end users might enjoy damage. Or that those who want to run dc++ on the background (not me, not enough power :( ) might also enjoy damage.
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