[Rictor]

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/transport/article334686.ece

Seriously, what is wrong with you people?!

****ing North Korea doesn't have this. China doesn't. Cuba doesn't. This is perhaps the most egregious case of nanny-statism I have ever seen.

[Flipside]

Yeah, the original lie was that it was to charge tolls on the Roads, but, surprise surprise, the government turned into a 1984 thing.

It's sickening, but far from certain despite the way it's worded in that article. The AA, our main automobile users association is absolutely livid about the plan, and they carry a fair amount of weight.

[Fineus]

As well they should by now. I'm suprised that society at large hasn't risen up against our current government. They've already gotten away with far more than they should.

[karajorma]

Yeah. Gatso II. Heard about this ages ago. This is the second time the government has tried it. I very much doubt it will work. At best is will cause levels of civil disobedience equivalent to the poll tax.

The only reason it's even gotten this far is because most people haven't heard about it.

Anyway. More details here.

[Rictor]

In my mind, any government who has even the intention of implementing such a Stalinist system is robbed of legitimacy and can not be allowed to stay on. Regardless of whether it works, if the will exists within the government to so blatantly violate the right to privacy among its citizen - I mean, it's like when somene tries to kill you. Just because they don't necessarily succeed doesn't mean you should keep on giving them the keys to your house. They obviously want to kill you, and if something stopped them this time, that's no guarantee for the future.

I'm interested to hear what the Limey public at large thinks of this. Almost every Net comment I've read has been thoroughly negative, yet somehow the idea lives on in what is supposedly a thouroughly democratic state.

The other question is, if the government of Britain rolls this out, and it goes through, how long before other places start doing it as well? If a democratically elected government can get away with it, every tyrant and strong-man in the world will take their cue and implement something similar at home. Doesn't the EU have a Human Rights Court that is supposed to deal with this sort of stuff, when the national government start acting nuts? I can't imagine how this could possibly stand up in court as regards a person's right to privacy.

[an0n]

Blair is a **** who's only interested in amassing enough power in a short enough time to force Britain to keep him on as leader.

[karajorma]

In my mind, any government who has even the intention of implementing such a Stalinist system is robbed of legitimacy and can not be allowed to stay on.

I agree 100%

I'm interested to hear what the Limey public at large thinks of this. Almost every Net comment I've read has been thoroughly negative, yet somehow the idea lives on in what is supposedly a thouroughly democratic state.

As I've said before people don't know about this. The government is trying to keep it quiet. When the public do find out about it they'll be bigger complaints than about the 90 day detention thing. This is basically going to be used to prevent any speeding on motorways. Seeing as how about 30-40% of the population speeds on motorways you've got a huge demographic there without the civil liberties thing.

People will protest far harder for something when it's a matter or principle AND will hurt them financially than they will just for principle alone.

[Clave]

"Using a network of cameras"

That's where this will fall down - as soon as they start putting cameras on poles into unspoilt Cotswold villages, people will be out at night with chainsaws cutting them down.  Urban dwellers probably won't notice as there's so much 'street furniture' crap lying around already.

Now, as for the principle of the thing, it is a step too far and should be resisted by any means possible. 

[Bobboau]

and you guys were freaking out over ****ing ID cards!?!
thi et ssesss whapt...... what the ****! I mean _what_ _the_ _fhow could you let this happen?! this is just... just...   this is insane!

[WMCoolmon]

And while the Home Office flagged the success of mobile ANPR unit trials earlier this year, claiming increases in arrest rates of up to 1,000 per cent, it failed to mention that the same trial exposed major flaws in the DVLA's existing databases.

This is what bothers me about Big Brother stuff...when the goal is to arrest people.

[karajorma]

That's where this will fall down - as soon as they start putting cameras on poles into unspoilt Cotswold villages, people will be out at night with chainsaws cutting them down.  Urban dwellers probably won't notice as there's so much 'street furniture' crap lying around already.

Problem is that most of them will go up on the motorways first. The idea is that if you snap someone at one camera, then snap them 70 miles down the road before an hour has passed they must have been speeding and therefore can be fined.

But even if you believe that explaination this doesn't explain why they want to store the data for years. It's just about infringing privacy in an attempt to claim that increases security. Of course we all know that's nonsense.

[aldo_14]

Christ, it's not like this...this disgrace is new.  I remember just a few months ago the government was mooting (road) taxation based on the roads used, how busy they were, etc.  In other words, a satellite tracker in every car; and the press totally ignored it.  Rictor is exactly right - this is nothing but an invitation for organized surveillance and oppression, something any totalitarian regime would love to have at their fingertips. 

Democracy is failing in this country, no doubt; we have a government with an overall majority yet 36% of the vote.  A government that went to war against the express wishes of the majority of the people, and has attempted to bring in trial without jury, identity cards, that has sought to raise the period of detention without trial, and that has jailed immigrants without trial or legal representation (holding them on the excuse that to deport them to their home country would expose them to torture).  1984 was only 20 years too early.

[Roanoke]

Once again those commiting minor infringements are gonna get nailed while the "big" crimes are gonna get worse. Still, given how most big Goverment projects go it'll probably cost a huge amount of money but still never work.

[aldo_14]

Once again those commiting minor infringements are gonna get nailed while the "big" crimes are gonna get worse. Still, given how most big Goverment projects go it'll probably cost a huge amount of money but still never work.

About the only thing that saves us from government totalitarianism is their incredible incompetency.  Still, I think I may be better off moving to Ireland* or something.

*nearest English speaking country that appears fairly normal

[Roanoke]

And don't get me started on TB and his handling of the Rebate and CAP.
Anyone else in the UK tired of being shafted by France/EU (and our Goverment allowing it) ?

[TrashMan]

Meh...cammeras on the freeways and busy streets are nothing new...
But why the hell keep the data for two years? A month would be more than enough.

[Flipside]

Because logs are kept on plane and train and coach tickets, so the only way for someone to move around the country without some tangible source of tracking them is by car. This is allegedly aimed at monitoring all traffic and cross referencing a license plate with the DVLA registry to identfity who is driving where. Unfortunately, this works on the extremely shaky preposition that the DVLA database is, in any sense of the word, organised.

[Rictor]

And keeping track of people's movements about is supposesdly a legitimate exercise of state power? In all honestly, I don't see people taking to the streets to tear down the cameras and whatnot. They'll sign a petition, no problem, but once it comes to actually going up against the law in a direct way - ain't gonna happen. I seem to recall there are alrady over a million CCTV cameras in London alone, and people don't seem to care much.

My only hope now is that this is some sort of temporary lunacy on behalf of the British government, as opposed to a widespread trend among Western nations to promote the "security" apparatus to such insane levels. If this crap starts progressing instead of regressing, we're all up **** creek.

[Kosh]

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/transport/article334686.ece

Seriously, what is wrong with you people?!

****ing North Korea doesn't have this. China doesn't. Cuba doesn't. This is perhaps the most egregious case of nanny-statism I have ever seen.

On the other hand North Korea and Cuba don't exactly have many cars.


I seriously doubt that the intentions behind this kind of thing are anything but BAD.


EDIT: Editted word choice to reflect my actual beliefs. What can I say? I had a little bit to drink last night.

[Black Wolf]

The road to Oceania is paved with good intentions.