[StratComm]

If the Medusa and Perseus both were not designed for the cockpit to be an external-view only implimentation, then more polys (and alpha mapping) would have gone in to the cockpits themselves.  They are done like that because they aren't designed to be viewed from inside.  Alpha mapping the HUD would cause some problems, but that's not the primary reason not to do it that way.  Furthermore, I think the two implimentations (internal view and external view) of cockpits would be mutually exclusive for FS ships anyway.

[Trivial Psychic]

I do have one concern with cockpits and eyepoints, when combined with the "show ship" flag.  If you place the eyepoint within the cockpit, then the ship being behind you blocks your ability to look rear-ward.  Since we already have the ability to add multiple eyepoints to a model, could we not train the code to use one eyepoint for the forward position, one for the "look up", one for the "look back", and one each for either side?  It would allow is to avoid instances where the model blocks any useful views.

Incidentally, it is also possible to mate eyepoints to specific submodels, which could be useful if player turret control is ever implimented.

[Fineus]

Hm... now that I think about it...

In-ship cockpits could be made a lot more complicated (but also better). Create separate cockpit models for each ship. Create a separate cockpit.tbl file which tells the game what ship should use what cockpit model. Create an option in the launcher to turn this on or off (if it's off - nothing gets loaded so it saves on performance - if it's on then the game loads the player ships cockpit models when it loads the mission). Also one cockpit should be specified as a "default" cockpit incase the other cockpit model is corrupt / missing.

The end result being that those who want detailed cockpits can have them. Those that don't can avoid them. It's a purely graphical feature but it's one of those things that could look really impressive if done properly.

[StratComm]

I've been an advocate for that one since the "show ship" flag made its first appearance.  Trouble is, no one wants to make the extra cockpit.

[Fineus]

Why not use the Apollo cockpit as default or something? This needn't be a particularly refined feature right now... it'd just take one person time to model and properly texture a cockpit nicely and then that could be the basis from there on.

[WMCoolmon]

I think it could be done with one ships.tbl field, with the cockpit model being displayed instead of the ship in first-person and first-person slewed views. I have a test cockpit from aldo, mostly it just needs to be coded in (and may have to handle rotation and diff. views and such).

[Cobra]

That HUD should really be alpha mapped.

not only that, better maps with animations.

[Herra Tohtori]

Couldn't that HUD plate visible in some cockpits be textured to be {0,250,0} aka pure green? Isn't that color transparent in FS2, just like the HUD plate is supposed to be...

This would help greatly in the case of, say, the Medusa. Now it's just a black plate obscuring the view.

By the way, i don't mind if the cockpit "restricts" the view. It always does. But as long as the targeting reticle and its surroundings are not obscured, it should be all right.

I tried some ships...

Medusa would be quite good, if there wasn't that ink black hud plate there.

The Hercules was actually quite good in my opinion. I don't think the viewpoint is too far behing...

The Herc II was a bit of a dissappointment. Only things I could see were the two purple/blue lights on the sides of the nose. Wonder why it's so...?

Ares was quite good, but i actually think that too little of the cockpit was visible.

Perseus would be great with centered viewpoint...

The Erinyes has promising look in its cockpit, only thing needed would be to move the viewpoint slightly up/down so that the targeting reticle and its immediate surroundings become visible. Otherwise it looked cool...

I think the best one, however, was Serapis. Mainly because it's actually the ship itself rather than cockpit interior being visible here...

One more thing. Is a HUD an absolute necessity? It very much looks like it's more like a helmet display. Thus, a HUD would not be needed IMO. What would you show in it?

I'd rather go for just some lights and perhaps one MFD of some kind. And I don't think the cockpits would need to be über-poly monstrosities as models. More important thing would be to have (much) higher resolution maps for visible parts of the cockpit.

I mean, the cockpit really has no need to be very precisely modeled. It's all fancy and cool and stuff, but as long as you don't plan to make the viewpoint move on normal flight, you can't see any 3D in the cockpit anyway. By normal flight I mean that the view is not shaken by afterburners or shockwaves, and on those occasions the view is so blurry anyway that 3D properties of the cockpit don't really pop out very much. But, with decent textures you can create a good illusion of the cockpit being completely 3D, if it already is partially that. Only problem with this is that with env mapping and shines and stuff, sharp angles point themselves out quite clearly... but you never know what it's gonna look like before you try it.

[Taristin]

I think the best one, however, was Serapis. Mainly because it's actually the ship itself rather than cockpit interior being visible here...

People keep saying this... I didn't design the ship with a cocpit. O.'.o  What does it look like?

[Herra Tohtori]

It looks cool. It doesn't restrict the view, there are no lights, gauges or a HUD visible, but you wouldn't expect to see much of them when you're looking throuh the glass in front of you, not down or sideways to control panels...

The ship is definitely there, but it doesn't take any actual attention. The viewpoint happens to be right in place, and the protruding "wings" or whatever are clearly visible, but don't obscure a thing. The textures is dark enough to have enough contrast with the helmet display's energy management, weapons and target display.

Quite a bit of luck, if it was never intended to have cockpit... 



Full reso 1280x1024  1.2 MB

[Fineus]

One thing to bear in mind (whatever anyone choses to do) is that we can't really select which ships we want to have cockpits or don't... they all or they don't... whether we like the shape or not.

I'd be particularly interested to see the cockpits on the Ursa, Myrmidon and Pegasus.. the first should be very spacious indeed.. the second a stand-upright design and finally the Pegasus should be something like a submarine on silent running.. very very dark with just some ghostly lit red controls or something.

[pecenipicek]

doesnt the pegasus already have a cockpit? i think i saw it somewhere, gotta check.

[edit] umm, these are the main menu screenies, i didnt get to it yet ingame, so i cant verify how it looks ingame.(this would be at least the 20th going thru the main campaign  )



its barely visible tho

[StratComm]

Again, the cockpit would have to be done seperately for transparency to work correctly on most models.  In almost all cases, you'd wind up with a transparent HUD obscuring the cockpit braces instead of them showing through.

And yes, the Pegasus cockpit is very small.  The pilot comes so close to not fitting that it's not even funny.

[Unknown Target]

I'd like to see some cockpits aside from Nico's standard one...I mean, that one was in the Apollo over 60 years ago, and as far as we know it was only in the Apollo. I know it would take a lot of work, but it'd still be cool.

[Fineus]

Chances are they're all fairly similar UT. Although I think they should be similar by era.

The Medusa and Ursa would share a vary similar cockpit design as they're both FS era bombers. The Perseus and the Herc 2 should be similar as they're both FS2 era fighters.

That said - if you really wanted to get technical - you could go into much greater detail for each cockpit and really customise things... I'll pick a few ships to help explain. The theory is based heavily on WW2 fighters:

Valkarie:
Really really stripped down cockpit. It's an interceptor and therefore (although speed theory isn't quite the same in space as it is in atmosphere) it'll carry a lot less in the cockpit. Cockpit will be thinner than an Apollos but also more form fitting to the pilot who should sit with a lot more of the forward HUD over his legs.

Perseus:
Like the Valk - totally stripped down but this time with a more obvious emphasis on comfort of pilot. Controls are far more optimised as it's a FS2 era craft so there's less need for a "dirty" layout.

Ursa:
A much much more spacious cockpit. The pilot may even have a swivel-type chair allowing him to rotate to face "sideways" out of the craft and operate further controls. This is largely due to the size of the ship.. it's a larger vessel and needs more tech to keep it going. This is of course an assumption.

Boanerges:
Once again - more spacious - but slightly less so this time. Tech has progressed from FS to FS2 and so a lot more of the controls that may have been manual before are now handled by onboard computers (despite the size of the thing).

Pegasus:
Dark, cramped and stealthy. But also with a "cutting edge" feel to it despite the cramped conditions. Very few lit controls (perhaps have a lot of the controls modelled but (assuming they're light up command consoles etc.) have them "off".. helping to convey the silent running feel the craft is all about.

Myrmidon:
Think: Starfury. Pilot is in a standing position (for the first time I believe?) and has a larger FOV as a result (as you can imagine - looking at the cockpit shape). By this stage perhaps a lot of what was previously a hard command console could be given over to holographic technology displayed infront of the pilot but not totally obstructing view?

I may do a few concept shots of this at some stage... no promises though. I hope you get what I mean

[Cobra]

I always thought the pilot in the Pegasus went prone to pilot his craft.

[Taristin]

Myrmidon:
Think: Starfury. Pilot is in a standing position (for the first time I believe?) and has a larger FOV as a result (as you can imagine - looking at the cockpit shape). By this stage perhaps a lot of what was previously a hard command console could be given over to holographic technology displayed infront of the pilot but not totally obstructing view?

Hmm.

[aldo_14]

I've been an advocate for that one since the "show ship" flag made its first appearance. Trouble is, no one wants to make the extra cockpit.

I would, but it wouldn't be based on any sort of FS canonical design........

[Fineus]

Does that mean you'd totally bastardise the look - or it just wouldn't be like the shot of the Apollo?

[aldo_14]

Does that mean you'd totally bastardise the look - or it just wouldn't be like the shot of the Apollo?

I mean it'd look more like the cockpits I've already made for LS (and which I need to remake now in high res HTL glory, gah) than the ones in the cutscene.