[Herra Tohtori]

So the Derelict uses its own table? That's strange, I don't remeber deleting it or anything (was it ever there?  )... Wouldn't it have been *much* more appropriate to include the tables into Derelict.vp, eh? 

Anyway, thanks a lot for help!

[karajorma]

This is all before my time but from what I understand, back when Derelict was released the only way to run a campaign with mods was to break FS2's main campaign. The tables weren't included in the VP cause the idea was to use a program to activate and deactive tables based on which campaign was run. The program was one of Kazan's but most people found it easier to just move and rename files manually so it never got much support.

[Jopi]

The installer didn't install the tables properly for me either. I found some tables in \data\missions folder, I think they were the Derelict ones.

[karajorma]

In that case it did install them properly. That's where they were supposed to go back then.

[Jopi]

In that case it did install them properly. That's where they were supposed to go back then.

I think they were lacking some entries, I had the Ulysses bug too. Is Freespace sma... clever enough to know which tabs to use, as the original tabs were still there?

[karajorma]

Not quite sure what you're asking but I'll try to answer what I think you're asking

Freespace 2 whether SCP or Retail has a path in which it looks for files. It will use the first file that it finds in that path regardless of whether or not they will actually work with the campaign you're playing. If you had the Derelict tables installed you'll get the Ulysses bug when you try to play the main FS2 campaign because the Iceni entry is missing. Similarly you'll get the error Herra Tohtori posted if you try to play Derelict with the retail tables.

[Herra Tohtori]

Okay, just to confuse things a bit more... 

Right now, everything works as it should - in-game. But, strangely enough, when I activate Mod/Derelict, the Tech room ceases to show certain ships. Actually it only shows no Shivan ships, and many of Terran and Vasudan ships also are missing from Tech room. For example, only the following Terran fighters and bombers are present: Hercules, Loki, Myrmidon, Medusa, Ursa and Zeus. Not much, eh? However, Perseus, Herc II, Erinyes, Ares and all other ships ARE visible and work quite normally in-game. They can also be seen quite normally in Ship selection - they just don't appear in Tech Room.

And, EVEN more mysteriously, the Cypher appears as Ulysses in Briefings, when I click below the name... but in-game it appears just as it is supposed to do.

I don't really understand this. Should all these parts of game use the same tables at one time? I don't get it, how the hell can some ship not be available in Tech Room, or to be substituted as Ulysses in Briefings... 

However, this is a very minor issue, as everything seems to be working quite fine in-game. Cypher is a capital ship, and all the ships that are missing in tech room are available. It'd just be nice to know what is causing this...

[karajorma]

The techroom will only show you ships that have had the tech-allow-ship SEXP applied to them in the campaign (obviously none of them at the start of the campaign) or which have a certain flag set in the tables telling them to appear.

The fighters you have mentioned all have this flag so they appear. The others do not so they disappear. This doesn't mean you can't play them as whether a ship is playable or not is completely independant of whether a ship appears in the techroom (it's set by a different SEXP or by an entry in the campaign file).

The Cypher appearing as a ulysses in the Briefing is likely to be a FREDding error rather than one with your tables. If you give me the name of a mission where it happens I'll double check it for you.

[Herra Tohtori]

The Cypher appears as Ulysses when clicked in briefing for mission "Descent ", DL2-10.FS2. I haven't checked other briefings where Cypher might be visible.

...Btw, the briwfing window also acts a bit strange. It doesn't show the briefing icon of the ship directly below ship's name but instead moves it a few centimetres down, so that clicking the briefing icon will not show the ship, but when I click the empty space between ship's name and icon, it shows the ship rotating in that nice window... For example, in that mentioned briefing, the Cypher's icon actually falls partially out of the window. Like this...

Briefing Icon Bug or something like that...

Well at least it's clear now why the table doesn't show most ships in tech room... More intersting is that why it is like that. Did someone forget to add that flag that shows the ship to most ships, or is it supposed to be so that for example Herc 2 cannot be seen in Tech room? Hmph, I'd understand if the ships visible would change during the campaign, but it doesn't seem to change at all...

[Trivial Psychic]

The problem with that screenshot is that you're playing on an unsupported resolution.

[karajorma]

Well at least it's clear now why the table doesn't show most ships in tech room... More intersting is that why it is like that. Did someone forget to add that flag that shows the ship to most ships, or is it supposed to be so that for example Herc 2 cannot be seen in Tech room? Hmph, I'd understand if the ships visible would change during the campaign, but it doesn't seem to change at all...

Basically it's an oversight. Derelict uses the standard FS2 tables with a few changes. The ships you see are exactly the ones you'd see at the start of FS2. If it really bugs you it's simple to fix.

1) Using notepad add "in tech database" to the $Flags entry for the ships you think need it. Take a look at the entry for the ulysses if you want to see what it looks like in a ship that already has it.
2) If Derelict becomes unstable (and you're playing on retail) open up search and replace and tell it to replace "  " (Double space) with " " (single space). That will trim the size of the table down a lot (cause it's very close to the limit for a ships table).

I'll check out the cypher bug in a bit

[Jopi]

So I guess FS2 never got past the retail tables that the installer had backed up but not deleted. IIRC, I added an Iceni entry in the retail tables. Otherwise Derelict worked well, but that just messed up my list of kills. Which, in retrospect, isn't very surprising.
By the way, Derelict has some evil missions, once I had to shoot down ~55 fighters and bombers during a single mission.

[karajorma]

FS2's Tables are in the root_fs2.vp. When you make a fresh install of FS2 the Data folder will be largely empty.

 The ones in your Data\Tables folder are either from Derelict (or some other user-made campaign you installed before Derelict). If something happened to those tables (suppose you deleted them) the next tables FS2 would find would be the ones in the root_fs2.vp file.

If you're interested in seeing the difference between the two sets of tables you can get VPView from the tools section of my FAQ and take a look inside  the root_fs2.vp file for yourself.


BTW : Add the Iceni at the bottom of your table rather than next to the Cypher as you presumably did and the list of kills will be back to normal.

The Cypher appears as Ulysses when clicked in briefing for mission "Descent ", DL2-10.FS2. I haven't checked other briefings where Cypher might be visible.

I checked. The Cypher's icon is mistakenly assigned as a Ulysses in FRED. That's pretty much what I thought the problem was.

[perihelion]

 

Pardon the bump, but I'm having one of the same problems Turalyon was with Warzone.  I'm at the mission "Stacking the Deck," and I am getting all primary objectives completed, getting my "congratulations and well done" messages at the mission review screen, but I then when I try to "accept" I get a message saying I can't because I failed the mission.

Another weird thing about this mission was that I could choose any weapon and any ship I wanted at the loadout stage.  Even an SF Mara.  Did this happen with anyone else besides Turalyon?

EDIT:
Bah!  Nevermind.  I just managed to get through successfully.  The original problem was caused by one of two things.  1) It didn't like me using a non-standard loadout (unlikely) or 2) The bonus objective of scanning the Vidar (which I didn't know about until this time around) was actually required for the mission to be considered "successful."  Either way, problem solved.