[wgemini]

The end of FS2 left an interesting situation. Vasudan dominated Deneb, Sirius, Regulus, Polaris had all suffered major genocides by the NTF forces. Presumably, they only killed Vasudans. Terran dominated Capella was destroyed and produced a huge amount of refugees (Capella seems to be pretty populous and assuming more of them got out). So the question is, how would the Vasudans feel if the Terrans rush into their systems. It would change the political dynamics significantly. Now, if the Vasudan fleet decided not to allow refugees enter their systems and maybe even destroyed several civilian ships during the blockade, would it trigger a second NTF rebellion and maybe the desolve of the GTVA? Maybe even the second Terran-Vasudan war?

[pyro-manic]

It's been/is being done with several user-made campaigns in one way or another. Though I don't think the Vasudans would fire on civilian ships without extreme provocation - they seem to be far more observant of BETAC than the Terrans are.

[StratComm]

Besides which, I don't think a second civil war in the GTVA would be called a "second NTF Rebellion".  Neo-Terra was very much centered around Bosch as a leader, so I can't see why the same thing would spring up again with him gone.

[Mefustae]

Why wouldn't it? If another rebellion were to take place centred around hatred/xenophobia towards the Vasudans, I would assum that either the instagators, or even GTVA Command, would dub it 'a ressurgeance of the NTF!!'

The same group? No. The same hatreds? Definitely.

[CP5670]

th053 f15h wUvV1n6 60r1lL45 4r3 0u7 70 637 4lL 0uR h3dZ!!1

On a more serious note, I think most of the Capellan refugees would naturally go to the neighboring systems (EP and Vega), which host Terran fleets and seem to already have significant numbers of Terrans, so I doubt the Vasudan battle groups would be able to just randomly attack civilian ships like that.

[wgemini]

Here is a campaign I have in mind (largely borrowed from the Legend of Galactic Heroes)

Characters:
Alpha 1 is a new recruit in the 70th blue lions. He doesn't talk much, but he gets the job done.
Alpha 2 is the wing leader. He is the serious type. Though still young, he is seasoned and does things by the number.
Alpha 3 is a young lady. Daughter of an Admiral. She defied her father by joining the fleet. A talented pilot, but a little spoiled.
Alpha 4 is a young guy. He is the hot shot of the group. Womanizer. Constantly causing troubles. He also despises Vasudans.

Act 1: Evacuation of Capella.
Hundreds of refugee ships were flooding into the Vega system. Chaos everywhere. Pirates were flourishing. Some Shivan ships also managed to jump into Vega.

Act 2: The Vega incident.
Unable to find adequate accommodations in Vega, the refugees started to migrate into other systems. Worried about a large influx of Terran population, the governor of Deneb, Prince Abdula, ordered an blockade of the Vega Deneb jump node. Sentry guns were set up and 13th Vasudan Battle Group kept the refugee group outside the node. Frustrated, one of the refugee ship forced its way into the node, but was destroyed by the sentry guns before it could make the jump. Things got out of control. Refugee ships opened fire against Vasudan warships and in the ensuing firefight, 7 refugee ships along with 1 Vasudan cruiser were destroyed. Terran politicians were outraged, yet the Vasudans in the security council refused to open an investigation. In protest, Vega withdrew from the GTVA. The security council declared martial law in Vega and ordered the 4th fleet to take control.

Act3: The second NTF rebellion.
The 4th fleet is having trouble putting out the resistance in Vega whereas Petrarch tries his best to keep the Vasudan 13th battlegroup out of this. A refugee ship filled with bombs rammed the Vasudan blockade, decimated much of the Vasudan fleet. Enraged, the 13th battlegroup moved all its mighty into Vega and attacked any suspected terrorists. During a standoff between the 4th fleet and the 13th battlegroup, a renegade Terran wing destroyed GVD Meru, killing the Visudan Crown Prince in the process. Admiral Petrarch was arrested for high treason and executed without a trial. The 4th Terran fleet, along with the 70th blue lions, defected to the rebellion. The 2nd and 5th fleet followed. More Terran systems declared independence from the GTVA. A new NTF was formed. The Vasudans suffered heavy losses in Vega and retreated back to Deneb.

Act4: The fall of the GTVA.
NTF battleships started to pour into Beta Aquitae. While still superior in numbers, the loyalist fleets were poorly led and suffered low morale. The NTF achieved victory after victory. After a bloody last stand, the GTVA capital fell. Most of the Vasudan fleet were devastated and withdrew back into their own systems. All Terran systems joined the newly established Galactic Terran Federation.

Act5: The bleeding universe.
Divisions started to appear within the GTF leadership. While the hawks wanted to start a second Terran Vasudan war, the prime minister would like to make peace and rebuild the  economy. The Terran Fleet commander plotted an unsuccessful military coup and was executed for treason. The Prime minister then started to purge the ranks of the GTF fleets. Thousands were killed. He, himself, was assassinated before long. Civil war broke out. The original members of the alpha wing now belongs to different camps. In the last mission, can you pull trigger against your old friends?

[Prophet]

First mistake:

Alpha 1 is a new recruit in the 70th blue lions. He doesn't talk much, but he gets the job done.
Alpha 2 is the wing leader. He is the serious type. Though still young, he is seasoned and does things by the number.

Why is the wingleader A2, while a mute dumbass is A1? Why not assign the player as wing leader and make him talk? Or if you want' to make him speechless, make him A2 and let the winleader be A1.

Secondly, I cannot belive that hostility between terrans and vasudans would flare up that easily. The whole plot just doesn't seem realistic...
Sorry, but thats what I think.

[NGTM-1R]

The Vasudans know what it is to be homeless...I doubt they would turn the Capella refugees away. One must not forget the devastation of Vasuda Prime...or the fact that the Terrans took in those Vasudan refugees that sought shelter with them afterwards. Vasudans have a keen interest in history, and presumably long memories. They would repay their debts.

Not to say that they won't have trouble of their own at some point. I doubt it would be Terran-related. The Hammer of Light is dead, and that same long memory will keep it dead for at least another generation or two after Capella.

But the sudden and abrupt dissolution of the Parliament of Vasuda must have generated some discontent... 

[wgemini]

Why is the wingleader A2, while a mute dumbass is A1? Why not assign the player as wing leader and make him talk? Or if you want' to make him speechless, make him A2 and let the winleader be A1.

Because I can't figure out how to make the player talk. While playing Transcend (I think), I was very annoyed by the fact that "I" kept on putting things into my own mouth. It also seems that FS frequently make A2 the leader, especially in early missions. I will change player to A4 then. I will evetually give them names, just haven't think of the names yet.

Secondly, I cannot belive that hostility between terrans and vasudans would flare up that easily. The whole plot just doesn't seem realistic...
Sorry, but thats what I think.

The Terrans and Vasudans have never trusted each other. They still have separate fleets despite some limited exchange program. Their fragile alliance is solely based on the common enemy. The Supernova in Capella made Shivan less a threat. I can also add scenes where ETAK made interrogation of Shivan prisoners possible and they have determined Shivans would not come back for another 1000 years. It can also be predicted by an ancient Vasudan script. Therefore, both sides know that they can concentrate on wrestling control of the GTVA now. The Vasudans have never show a savvy political sense. Due to the lack of understanding of human emotion, they can easily make mistakes yet they are too stubborn to acknowledge it.

It's also interesting that Vasudans joined the GTVA as a strong united empire whereas Terran governments were more or less coerced into it. The first NTF rebellion showed that a significant group of Terrans don't like it at all. We can assume that only one Terran government (the original member) is truly devoted to the GTVA whereas others are simply waiting for the change to break off. Therefore, the war was never a true Terran Vasudan war, it's more of an independence war between Terran systems and GTVA. Both sides are Terrans. The Vasudan's supply line got cut off by hostile Terran militias, so they never were a big factor in the war.

Also,  the whole conflict is more or less engineered by the survivors of the original NTF intelligent service. Both the original refugee ship that got destroyed and the suicide ramming ship were sent by the NTF. The renegade group of bombers that destroyed the GTD Meru were NTF agents as well. The real target is Petrarch since he is a brilliant commander that can not be defeated on the battlefield. The NTF might even have allies in the Vasudan ranks (supporters of the hammer of light). Of course, the player can't know all this. Between missions, the personal log of NTF leadership will be played like the Ancient scroll in FS1.

[wgemini]

The Vasudans know what it is to be homeless...I doubt they would turn the Capella refugees away. One must not forget the devastation of Vasuda Prime...or the fact that the Terrans took in those Vasudan refugees that sought shelter with them afterwards. Vasudans have a keen interest in history, and presumably long memories. They would repay their debts.

Not to say that they won't have trouble of their own at some point. I doubt it would be Terran-related. The Hammer of Light is dead, and that same long memory will keep it dead for at least another generation or two after Capella.

But the sudden and abrupt dissolution of the Parliament of Vasuda must have generated some discontent... 

That's a good point. However, the Vasudans can also remember their heavy losses during the NTF rebellion where local Terrans cooperated with the NTF force in the genocides. They will surely be suspicous when more Terrans want to settle in their systems. Still, I would emphasize that it was a individual decision by Prince Abdula (like that renegade general in the SOC compaign) . The vasudans do regret it. They will send massive supply convoy into Vega, but they are too stubburn to admit it and blame it on a member of the royal family, espeically since the Terrans fired first (NTF agents engineered the whole thing). Crowd control is never an easy task. Also, there's a detail. The 13th battle group did withdrew from the Vega system and blocked the Deneb Vega node instead (on the deneb side) whereas the 4th fleet handles the refugees on the Vega side. The suicide bombing happened in Vasudan space. Again, a plot by the NTF.

[Prophet]

Because I can't figure out how to make the player talk.

Just put message sender as #Alpha 1...

The Terrans and Vasudans have never trusted each other. They still have separate fleets despite some limited exchange program. Their fragile alliance is solely based on the common enemy. The Supernova in Capella made Shivan less a threat. I can also add scenes where ETAK made interrogation of Shivan prisoners possible and they have determined Shivans would not come back for another 1000 years. It can also be predicted by an ancient Vasudan script. Therefore, both sides know that they can concentrate on wrestling control of the GTVA now.

Terrans and Vasudans maintain different fleets because of many reasons. Take a look how different the T and V mainhalls are. Plus the two species have different physiology and habits etc. So it's far simpler to keep them in seperate ships than to try and design a ship that they both like to live in.
And terrans and Vasudans not trusting each other is not true. They trust each other as much as yanks trust mexicans, brits trust french or finns trust swedes. They are not at each others throats everytime they see eachother (ofcourse there are those who are). How do you think they could function in battle togeher if they couldn't trust each other? How can they build Colossus, if they don't like each other at all? (idea was Vasudan, and ships captain was terran so likely it had a mixed crew)

The Vasudans have never show a savvy political sense. Due to the lack of understanding of human emotion, they can easily make mistakes yet they are too stubborn to acknowledge it.

Im interested to know, why do you think that?

[Nuclear1]

I'm going to have to jump on the bandwagon here and disagree with this idea.

Even if the Vasudans don't understand Terran emotions (which I highly doubt since they put such an emphasis on loyalty and sacrifice), one would think that the Vasudans would at least be able to look back and realize what the two races have been through togther. Sure, the NTF did commit crimes against the Vasudans, but one would assume that the Vasudans would not simply snap against the Terran race as a whole for that. Remember, while the NTF killed Vasudans, the Aquitaine's fighter wings protected Vasudan civilians in Deneb.

I could understand there being some underlying tension between the Terrans and Vasudans--by this time, a majority of the Terran-Vasudan War veterans are roughly middle-aged and may hold positions of authority in the GTVA. Still, those Terran-Vasudan War veterans were also veterans of the Great War, and saw the Vasudans and Terrans stand together and fight a common enemy. Remember FS1 in particular? The Lucifer jumped to Vasuda Prime only once it had gotten past the Galatea, the crew of which had attempted to halt the Shivan invasion of Vasuda Prime even through a Shivan-infested system.

My point? The Vasudans and Terrans have stood together for too long, despite their earlier conflicts, to simply fall apart like this, especially facing total annihilation twice and enduring two massive civil wars.

I applaud your effort at creating a story, but you'll really need a more convincing reason for the GTVA to just fall apart as you said.

[wgemini]

Vasudan and Terran did go through a lot together, but fighting together and living together are two different things. Humans will always be suspicious and violent whereas the Vasudans are forever stubborn and arrogant. Even in FS2, the Vasudans openly looked down upon their terran counterpart. Vasudan wings refused to serve under human wing leader. Humans are more subtle, but you get the feeling they don't like Vasudsans that much either. Remember, most NTF pilots are former members of the Terran 6th fleet and the NTF could not have been so successful without the support of local Terran population.

Vasudans aside, the BETAC itself is severely flawed. It forcefully concentrate power into the central government, which makes it a convenient scapegoat for any local hardship. The refuge situation is a domestic crisis, which makes the young central government vulnerable. I am not saying it's going to fall for sure, I am simply trying to explore one of the worst case scenario.

[aldo_14]

I'm going to have to jump on the bandwagon here and disagree with this idea.

Even if the Vasudans don't understand Terran emotions (which I highly doubt since they put such an emphasis on loyalty and sacrifice), one would think that the Vasudans would at least be able to look back and realize what the two races have been through togther. Sure, the NTF did commit crimes against the Vasudans, but one would assume that the Vasudans would not simply snap against the Terran race as a whole for that. Remember, while the NTF killed Vasudans, the Aquitaine's fighter wings protected Vasudan civilians in Deneb.

I could understand there being some underlying tension between the Terrans and Vasudans--by this time, a majority of the Terran-Vasudan War veterans are roughly middle-aged and may hold positions of authority in the GTVA. Still, those Terran-Vasudan War veterans were also veterans of the Great War, and saw the Vasudans and Terrans stand together and fight a common enemy. Remember FS1 in particular? The Lucifer jumped to Vasuda Prime only once it had gotten past the Galatea, the crew of which had attempted to halt the Shivan invasion of Vasuda Prime even through a Shivan-infested system.

My point? The Vasudans and Terrans have stood together for too long, despite their earlier conflicts, to simply fall apart like this, especially facing total annihilation twice and enduring two massive civil wars.

I applaud your effort at creating a story, but you'll really need a more convincing reason for the GTVA to just fall apart as you said.

On the other hand, let's not assume the Vasudans would all stand together in unity; they've had their own rebellions, after all, and it's not unknown for a charismatic rebel/guerilla leader to use the response to their own attacks in order to galvanize and gather support.

[WMCoolmon]

Here is a campaign I have in mind (largely borrowed from the Legend of Galactic Heroes)
...

If you want to make a campaign, your best bet is to learn to FRED and start working on it. If you post it on the forums you're giving away a large portion of the plotline already, and will likely get bogged down defending the plot from people who don't like it.

That's not to say that it's a bad thing to discuss things on the forums, it's just not usually conductive to making a campaign. I can't ever recall seeing someone post a plot on the forums and anyone else saying "Hey, that sounds great, I'll help you with it!" but campaigns like Sync/Transcend, Homesick, Shrouding the Light and so on show that it's possible for one FREDder to make a great campaign without needing much help at all.

Very often campaigns and mods end up with the project leader doing of the work anyway, so you might as well be working on your vision, so that you want to see it get done.

[Nuclear1]

Plus, you'd be surprised what you could get away with and what you can accomplish without many new mods in the campaign--again, look at Homesick/Sync/Transcend/Sol: A History for examples (or, hey, even the ultra-crappy Rogue Intentions ).

[wgemini]

Thanks. I am working on it. I am nowhere near a skilled FREDer though. I have yet to find a way to keep my wingmen alive without them bruised and jumping out in the first 2 minutes. 

[Charismatic]

Thanks. I am working on it. I am nowhere near a skilled FREDer though. I have yet to find a way to keep my wingmen alive without them bruised and jumping out in the first 2 minutes.

uh...
Anyways. Terrans and Vasudans trust eachother with their lives. As the NTF killed vasudans, the HOL killed terrans. As already stated; our two races have gone through too much to fall apart.

And someone tell me why would anyone come out and think 'what if the vasudans fired on terran refugees from capella for no reason whatsoever..' ? Why would they? No provolkation.. no reason. Hell we kept eachother alive all these years. Why..

[aldo_14]

Thanks. I am working on it. I am nowhere near a skilled FREDer though. I have yet to find a way to keep my wingmen alive without them bruised and jumping out in the first 2 minutes.

uh...
Anyways. Terrans and Vasudans trust eachother with their lives. As the NTF killed vasudans, the HOL killed terrans. As already stated; our two races have gone through too much to fall apart.

And someone tell me why would anyone come out and think 'what if the vasudans fired on terran refugees from capella for no reason whatsoever..' ? Why would they? No provolkation.. no reason. Hell we kept eachother alive all these years. Why..

If there's anything humanity has proven itself good at, it's self-destructing.  I see no reason to assume the Vasudans are different; especially if one of the reasons behind the T-V war was the mishandling of a conversation....

[karajorma]

Thanks. I am working on it. I am nowhere near a skilled FREDer though. I have yet to find a way to keep my wingmen alive without them bruised and jumping out in the first 2 minutes. 

Good use of Ship-Guardian, Ship-Guardian-Threshold and Ship-Invulnerable should deal with that problem.

Also take a look at the FRED Academy in the campaigns forum and my FAQ for more help