Author Topic: Israel to invade Iran or even nuke them?  (Read 4217 times)

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Offline BlackDove

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Re: Isreal to invade Iran or even nuke them?
If Iran comes under the US or Israeli influence, chalk up another score for the Zionists.

  

Offline Nuclear1

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Re: Isreal to invade Iran or even nuke them?
I say it will happen. Everything the bible says will happen. But make sure to interpet the intent of the passages and context surronding them. And IMHO Left Behind should be continued in the movie industry and finished. Good movie's they were.

You really did miss the whole point of what I said. Everything that has been said in Revelation is mainly based on things that would have happened in the near future of when John was writing or had already happened. The Four Horsemen are particularly representative of this--War, Disease, Pestilence, and Famine are already common conditions in society, and they were released when the world was said to have fallen into sin. Also consider the Battle of Armageddon itself, where the servants of evil will surround the holy city and attack, yet be instantly repulsed by the forces of God--is this not symbolic of evil all around the Christians the world who are said to be defended by their God continually?

I could go on and on (especially about the seven heads of the Beast representing the seven Roman hills and the horns representing coming Roman Emperors), but, like I said, another discussion for another time.
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Offline Crazy_Ivan80

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Re: Isreal to invade Iran or even nuke them?

But if the US  and Israel, and GB and France can have nukes, then so can Iran. Or do these countries think they have a god-given right to bully otehr countriies as tehy please?

  :sigh: moral relativism  :rolleyes:

Iran signed the NPT so they can't have nukes.
If they want nukes they must leave the NPT.
Saying that you're doing it for peaceful purposes whileeveloping nuclear 'power' in secret (while the NPT stipulates that nations have the right to develop nuclear power) is not a way to make others trust you. Declining a deal whereby another nations would provide (sell) you with the enriched uranium you need is not a sign of wanting to develop nuclear power for peaceful purposes only, especailly if you consider that the only nations doing uranium enrichment are all nuclear powers. Having a president that states that Israel should be wiped off the map and states that the holocaust is a european-zionist conspiracy is also not a good way to engender trust, especially coupled to the fact that the country of said president is notorious for sponsering terrorist groups that strike against Israel.
Israel (iirc) developed its nukes (assuming they have them since it is still not confirmed :p) before the NPT so they're entitled to have them. India and Pakistan were not, iirc, signatories to the NPT so they're entitled to have them.
We're the West, that's why!  :yes:

-----------

And Revelations is 1st Century Science-Fiction written by a bunch of druggies. But be glad, it could have been written by Hubbard. :D :p

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BTW, Israel is never, ever again going to trust the defence of the jewish people to others. And reasonably so.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2006, 05:37:20 pm by Crazy_Ivan80 »
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Offline WeatherOp

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Re: Isreal to invade Iran or even nuke them?

I could go on and on (especially about the seven heads of the Beast representing the seven Roman hills and the horns representing coming Roman Emperors), but, like I said, another discussion for another time.

Or the seven continents of the Earth, but as you said another discussion for another time.
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Offline Nuclear1

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Re: Isreal to invade Iran or even nuke them?
Or the seven continents of the Earth, but as you said another discussion for another time.

Good point as well, but, being the agnostic that I am, I still believe in the Rome theory, as that is what John knew of at the time.

(Still, another discussion for another time)
Spoon - I stand in awe by your flawless fredding. Truely, never before have I witnessed such magnificant display of beamz.
Axem -  I don't know what I'll do with my life now. Maybe I'll become a Nun, or take up Macrame. But where ever I go... I will remember you!
Axem - Sorry to post again when I said I was leaving for good, but something was nagging me. I don't want to say it in a way that shames the campaign but I think we can all agree it is actually.. incomplete. It is missing... Voice Acting.
Quanto - I for one would love to lend my beautiful singing voice into this wholesome project.
Nuclear1 - I want a duet.
AndrewofDoom - Make it a trio!

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Isreal to invade Iran or even nuke them?
But, keep in mind.  We've been sitting on one of the biggest (next to Russia and China) stockpiles since the late 1940's and we haven't used them.  We know it only takes one to knock over everybody.  Say what you will about our agressive, arrogant, and unwarranted approaches to foreign policy, but we simply will not fire first.

*Points at Bush and his nuclear bunker busters.*

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Offline aldo_14

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Re: Isreal to invade Iran or even nuke them?
Haven't the DoD put down operational guidelines for the (justification for the) use of nuclear weapons that include against overwhelming enemy forces or in the face of a losing battle?

 

Offline Nuclear1

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Re: Isreal to invade Iran or even nuke them?
Before Iraq gets mentioned as such a "losing battle," I'd like to throw in my two cents on the matter. I would think that DoD would put forth this proposal not in the face of a defeat overseas in a conflict such as Vietnam/Iraq/Korea, but in the event of an actual invasion of the United States or the inevitability of such an attack (like Red Dawn, par exampla).
Spoon - I stand in awe by your flawless fredding. Truely, never before have I witnessed such magnificant display of beamz.
Axem -  I don't know what I'll do with my life now. Maybe I'll become a Nun, or take up Macrame. But where ever I go... I will remember you!
Axem - Sorry to post again when I said I was leaving for good, but something was nagging me. I don't want to say it in a way that shames the campaign but I think we can all agree it is actually.. incomplete. It is missing... Voice Acting.
Quanto - I for one would love to lend my beautiful singing voice into this wholesome project.
Nuclear1 - I want a duet.
AndrewofDoom - Make it a trio!

 

Offline aldo_14

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Re: Isreal to invade Iran or even nuke them?
Before Iraq gets mentioned as such a "losing battle," I'd like to throw in my two cents on the matter. I would think that DoD would put forth this proposal not in the face of a defeat overseas in a conflict such as Vietnam/Iraq/Korea, but in the event of an actual invasion of the United States or the inevitability of such an attack (like Red Dawn, par exampla).

I think it refers to a US field unit being overrun by a far larger enemy force, such as might occur if the US were to invade Iran, N.Korea or China (with their possible use of human 'wave' tactics).

Having checked, there was a draft doctrine (now pulled) that authorised/suggested the use of nuclear weapons in the event of a planned WMD strike on US or civillian targets that could not be stopped by conventional forces, or against otherwise indestructable biological weapons.  There are rumours Rumsfeld authorised a 'Interim Global Strike Alert Order' in 2004 that included planning for first strike nuclear attacks upon Iran or North Korea (due to the ineffectiveness of 'shock and awe' in Iraq).  Reportedly John Bolton, the US' ambassador to the UN, is a driving force behind an abandonment of the no first strike policy.

 

Offline Turnsky

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Re: Isreal to invade Iran or even nuke them?

But if the US  and Israel, and GB and France can have nukes, then so can Iran. Or do these countries think they have a god-given right to bully otehr countriies as tehy please?

  :sigh: moral relativism  :rolleyes:

Iran signed the NPT so they can't have nukes.
If they want nukes they must leave the NPT.
Saying that you're doing it for peaceful purposes whileeveloping nuclear 'power' in secret (while the NPT stipulates that nations have the right to develop nuclear power) is not a way to make others trust you. Declining a deal whereby another nations would provide (sell) you with the enriched uranium you need is not a sign of wanting to develop nuclear power for peaceful purposes only, especailly if you consider that the only nations doing uranium enrichment are all nuclear powers. Having a president that states that Israel should be wiped off the map and states that the holocaust is a european-zionist conspiracy is also not a good way to engender trust, especially coupled to the fact that the country of said president is notorious for sponsering terrorist groups that strike against Israel.
Israel (iirc) developed its nukes (assuming they have them since it is still not confirmed :p) before the NPT so they're entitled to have them. India and Pakistan were not, iirc, signatories to the NPT so they're entitled to have them.
We're the West, that's why!  :yes:

i do hope that's sarcasm, otherwise,  Nuclear weapons have this allure of a big shiny saber to rattle at your enemies, like 'invade me country, and i'll vaporise you with a cleansing atomic fire" or some such ****e, this is what kept the cold war like it was, mutually assured destruction, both east and west were rattling their own nuclear weapons like babies with a rattle.. the only difference between the west, and those countries that are newly joining "the nuclear club" is that the US, russia, GB, france, etc have had the funds to actively test them, and accurately measure their destructive force, that, and they'd most likely be less trigger happy than, say the US..
as i see it, the big western countries want to keep the status quo of their own impressive arsenal of WMD's, when everybody has one, then the mutally assured destruction factor would kick in for all involved, they nuke us, we nuke them, somebody else nukes us.... mind you, what happens when everybody has 'The bomb" ?... that's right, somebody will up and redefine the term, and come up with something just as cataclysmic.

long story short, nuclear = power, no matter how you use it, for electricity, pretty much literal, for weapons, political power, or ire, depending on which end of it you're on.
given how the UN was pretty much built around the global threat of nuclear weapons during the post-ww2 years & the cold war, it's rather unfortunate that these days, they haven't got much clout beyond the odd economical embargo.
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Offline Sandwich

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Re: Isreal to invade Iran or even nuke them?
Also consider the Battle of Armageddon itself, where the servants of evil will surround the holy city and attack, yet be instantly repulsed by the forces of God--is this not symbolic of evil all around the Christians the world who are said to be defended by their God continually?

Is that part of Replacement Theology? :doubt:

Anyway, there are soo many parts in the book of Revelation that just don't make sense no matter how you look at it that I don't see how anyone could think that it's all been fulfilled. I certainly don't see that cube- or sphere-shaped (or not...) New Jerusalem anywhere, do you?

*poke*

Nope, definitely old, earthly Jerusalem. ;)
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Offline Turnsky

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Re: Isreal to invade Iran or even nuke them?


Nope, definitely old, earthly Jerusalem. ;)

or dusty, whichever time of the year it is  :p
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Offline Goober5000

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Re: Isreal to invade Iran or even nuke them?
I certainly don't see that cube- or sphere-shaped (or not...) New Jerusalem anywhere, do you?

Or pyramidal.  I once read an article where somebody conjectured that the pyramids in Egypt were an attempt by certain "powers and principalities" to reproduce heaven on earth -- albeit at a vastly inferior scale. ;)

 
Re: Isreal to invade Iran or even nuke them?
don't forget bout the russians...there the ones thats selling their stuff....hell we don't want to get involve with this matter.....mostly the iranian ppl are ready to take over there own gov...but the problem with that is....they can't do it.....if we (the U.S.) are going to war against iran...we'll have the rest of the arabs on our side...well beside syria

 

Offline Sandwich

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Re: Isreal to invade Iran or even nuke them?
Or pyramidal.  I once read an article where somebody conjectured that the pyramids in Egypt were an attempt by certain "powers and principalities" to reproduce heaven on earth -- albeit at a vastly inferior scale. ;)

Ahh, quite possible. Now that I think about it, a sphere wouldn't be logical, since it's reported to have 4 sides, with 3 gates on each side. So a cube or a pyramid would both work. Hmm.
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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Ace

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Re: Isreal to invade Iran or even nuke them?
Or pyramidal.  I once read an article where somebody conjectured that the pyramids in Egypt were an attempt by certain "powers and principalities" to reproduce heaven on earth -- albeit at a vastly inferior scale. ;)

Ahh, quite possible. Now that I think about it, a sphere wouldn't be logical, since it's reported to have 4 sides, with 3 gates on each side. So a cube or a pyramid would both work. Hmm.

(Warning! Obscure Starsiege reference!)

Remind me to not build Nova Alexandria anywhere near Israel :p
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Offline pyro-manic

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Re: Israel to invade Iran or even nuke them?
don't forget bout the russians...there the ones thats selling their stuff....hell we don't want to get involve with this matter.....mostly the iranian ppl are ready to take over there own gov...but the problem with that is....they can't do it.....if we (the U.S.) are going to war against iran...we'll have the rest of the arabs on our side...well beside syria

Umm... what? Please elaborate...
Any fool can pull a trigger...

 

Offline Nuclear1

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Re: Isreal to invade Iran or even nuke them?
Is that part of Replacement Theology? :doubt:

Not sure where I learned it from. It's a conservative Lutheran interpretation, methinks, but then again, I'm agnostic, so I don't particularly believe the whole thing anyway. :blah:
Spoon - I stand in awe by your flawless fredding. Truely, never before have I witnessed such magnificant display of beamz.
Axem -  I don't know what I'll do with my life now. Maybe I'll become a Nun, or take up Macrame. But where ever I go... I will remember you!
Axem - Sorry to post again when I said I was leaving for good, but something was nagging me. I don't want to say it in a way that shames the campaign but I think we can all agree it is actually.. incomplete. It is missing... Voice Acting.
Quanto - I for one would love to lend my beautiful singing voice into this wholesome project.
Nuclear1 - I want a duet.
AndrewofDoom - Make it a trio!

 

Offline aldo_14

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Re: Israel to invade Iran or even nuke them?
don't forget bout the russians...there the ones thats selling their stuff....hell we don't want to get involve with this matter.....mostly the iranian ppl are ready to take over there own gov...but the problem with that is....they can't do it.....if we (the U.S.) are going to war against iran...we'll have the rest of the arabs on our side...well beside syria

Umm... what? Please elaborate...


I think he's mentioning Russia selling nuclear technology to Iran (which is true; the Russians have taken up building the reactor and also have offered to do the enrichment in order to break the current deadlock), assuming the Iranian people are ready and willing to launch a revolution and topple the theocracy (which is kind of hard to judge, especially as there's nothing like exterior threats to unite a country), and that most of the bordering states would support the US in a war on Iran (which is complete tosh; aside from religious, cultural, regional and racial solidarity, they don't want another Iraq-type situation on their borders, spreading chaos and acting as a training ground for fundamentalists to return and try and start a fundamentalist revolution).
« Last Edit: January 25, 2006, 10:25:32 am by aldo_14 »

 

Offline Ford Prefect

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Re: Israel to invade Iran or even nuke them?
Quote
if we (the U.S.) are going to war against iran...we'll have the rest of the arabs on our side...well beside syria
Iranians aren't Arabs.
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