Author Topic: Another step backwards for British civil liberties.  (Read 5446 times)

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Offline aldo_14

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Offline Flipside

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Re: Another step backwards for British civil liber
Mr Blair told the BBC: "I think we've won the argument on it.

There wasn't an argument Asshole! You never even bothered to listen to the public point of view, so don't pretend you 'talked us over' or something. You just bulldozed you're ideals through and ignored any rules that prevented you from doing so.

Sorry, but this guy just keeps getting worse, and as someone who has to renew his passport in a few months, it affects me personally.

 

Offline aldo_14

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Re: Another step backwards for British civil liber
I'm never renewing my passport whilst this is in force.  It's pathetic and insulting to all voters, the way the government have lied and spun their way, refusing to even answer the questions raised.  They should be ashamed.

 

Offline Zuljin

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Re: Another step backwards for British civil liberties.
If the estimate of.. £300 for the thing is correct.. isn't that a little bit too pricey?
With a price tag like that I can't see this getting alot of support from the public, ofcourse.. not that they seem too worried about that.

 

Offline an0n

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Re: Another step backwards for British civil liberties.
Yeah. I gotta get a passport for the Road Trip™ in July, and I'm pissed enough at having to fork out £50 - let alone £93.

****ing assholes. I can't wait till someone assasinates that smug ****ing bastard.
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Offline vyper

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Re: Another step backwards for British civil liber
This is where we hope the lords kick it back out again.
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Offline Wild Fragaria

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Re: Another step backwards for British civil liberties.
This is a bit out of order.  I thought the old system worked just fine for you guys for decades.

 

Offline aldo_14

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Re: Another step backwards for British civil liber
This is a bit out of order.  I thought the old system worked just fine for you guys for decades.

It worked so well that the UK scrapped Id cards in 1953 (introduced during WW2; y'know, when there actually was a clear and present danger to the UK), as they were not needed and had actually eroded public trust and co-operation with the Police.

It's a sticking plaster manifesto promise, claiming to deliver the world yet not even able to provide a cost estimate.   We have Labour citing £30 on the basis of only the Home Office implementation costs, and failing to even contemplate the fact it might run over budget as every other government IT project has in the history of everything (literally).  A London School of Economics report comes out, and the government tries to dismiss it as biased rather than directly address any question.  Then they release a statement, a few weeks ago, that Id theft costs '£1.2bn' per year - citing it as a reason for Id cards when not only are the figures blatantly wrong (the cost including the likes of how much it costs to launch police raids on asylum seekers and deporting them; the actual figure directly related to the territory of Id cards was £390-490m, less than the governments wildly optimistic pricings for the running costs of an Id card scheme), but it makes the entirely bizarre and unsupportable assumption Id cards would eliminate this type of fraud (for example, ignoring forgeries, the likelihood of Ids being remotely read as with the Dutch system, and internet fraud).  and when the Dutch passport problems were mentioned (the Dutch launched a biometric passport using an RFID chip -as with the ID card scheme - which was promptly cracked, allowing peoples' entire identity data to be stolen by people up to 10 feet away), the governments response was to dismiss it as a test (which it obviously bloody well failed, didn't it), and then claim it wouldn't happen because they were better (how?  they never said......).  Not to mention failing to mention that ID cards will have an aforementioned RFID chip, and using wooly language to obfuscate that fact (referred to as a 'contactless readable' card by the government, lest the plebs realise they're to be fitted with a radio tracker).

And that's ignoring the civil liberties implications, or the government planning unlimited powers to extend or add to the data within the ID cards.  Or the technical stupidity of the design, like giving pre-op transsexuals two legal identities - a card for male and female.

I'm truly disgusted.  (Quite seriously) If it wasn't financially impossible for me, I'd be looking to leave the country.

This is where we hope the lords kick it back out again.

Great, innit?  The sole hope for democratic Britain is a bunch of unelected old farts; we're being saved by the (in theory) least representative part of the government. I  guess not being accountable to the voters means you can afford to have such unpolitical things like principles and a backbone.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2006, 02:29:09 pm by aldo_14 »

 

Offline Wild Fragaria

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Re: Another step backwards for British civil liberties.
Pink ID card for female and blue for male   ;)

 

Offline Rictor

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Re: Another step backwards for British civil liberties.
Yes, and yellow for Jews, with a Star of David.

Great, innit?  The sole hope for democratic Britain is a bunch of unelected old farts; we're being saved by the (in theory) least representative part of the government. I  guess not being accountable to the voters means you can afford to have such unpolitical things like principles and a backbone.

Isn't there a campaign to "democratize" the House of Lords, and make them elected? Seems to me that would defeat the purpose. Cause once you're in, you can do anything you want, up to and including dressing like a woman in public, and no one can touch you. A bit like University tenures.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2006, 03:34:54 pm by Rictor »

 
Re: Another step backwards for British civil liber
and when the Dutch passport problems were mentioned (the Dutch launched a biometric passport using an RFID chip -as with the ID card scheme - which was promptly cracked, allowing peoples' entire identity data to be stolen by people up to 10 feet away), the governments response was to dismiss it as a test (which it obviously bloody well failed, didn't it), and then claim it wouldn't happen because they were better (how?  they never said......). 
Not entirely true, if you mean the Dutch government dismissed it as a test. It was a test all along. But indeed, it was pretty damn ugly. Due to some idiot using a stupidly calculated key, it was a 31 bit security. PayPal uses something like 384.
Quote from: Aldo
This is where we hope the lords kick it back out again.

Great, innit?  The sole hope for democratic Britain is a bunch of unelected old farts; we're being saved by the (in theory) least representative part of the government. I  guess not being accountable to the voters means you can afford to have such unpolitical things like principles and a backbone.

You know, that is the one reason I think the Lords are a good idea. Or were, because they're supposed to be voteable now, aren't they?
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Offline Goober5000

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Re: Another step backwards for British civil liber
You know, that is the one reason I think the Lords are a good idea. Or were, because they're supposed to be voteable now, aren't they?

Ya.  Just like the US Senate. :sigh:

 

Offline aldo_14

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Re: Another step backwards for British civil liber
Isn't there a campaign to "democratize" the House of Lords, and make them elected? Seems to me that would defeat the purpose. Cause once you're in, you can do anything you want, up to and including dressing like a woman in public, and no one can touch you. A bit like University tenures.

sort of, but now Tony Blair wants to place peers in there, replacing life peers with the government selection.  Wonder why?..........

and when the Dutch passport problems were mentioned (the Dutch launched a biometric passport using an RFID chip -as with the ID card scheme - which was promptly cracked, allowing peoples' entire identity data to be stolen by people up to 10 feet away), the governments response was to dismiss it as a test (which it obviously bloody well failed, didn't it), and then claim it wouldn't happen because they were better (how?  they never said......). 
Not entirely true, if you mean the Dutch government dismissed it as a test. It was a test all along. But indeed, it was pretty damn ugly. Due to some idiot using a stupidly calculated key, it was a 31 bit security. PayPal uses something like 384.

Nah, I mean the UKGov response was 'the Dutch system was a test'; and, obviously, if someone cracked the key and stole data, it failed as such.  Not much good if you have a test scheme on biometric data, and someone easily steals that info from a distance thanks to the passport design; you'd have to be an idiot to take the results of that test, and then excuse them as acceptable because it was...er...a test.

Regardless of the Dutch governments actions.

 

Offline an0n

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Re: Another step backwards for British civil liberties.
See, this is why my first act in office will be to horribly butcher the vast majority of Parliament....
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Another step backwards for British civil liberties.
See, this is why my first act in office will be to horribly butcher the vast majority of Parliament....

The only way to really make a representive government work as it was intended to is to kill everyone involved with it about every twenty years. Maybe every ten.

And I do mean everyone. You can't just take out the guys in office, you have to kill their staffs, all the lobbying folks, and all the party members who aren't doing clerical work for the party or less.
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Re: Another step backwards for British civil liberties.
The most wonderful thing about the ID card debate is where the Government have not even given a specific, workable scenario where the cards would help to combat crime or terrorism as they claim it will. Clarke could claim that having them increases your sex appeal or reduces the risk of cancer, and the public would lap it up, all under the magic umbrella that it's 'new technology'.

I think great political capital could be made from one of the opposition parties making a commitment to scrapping the scheme and undoing all the damage. It's not like the system will be anywhere near wide implementation in three years time, and they wouldn't be bound by the political 'ratchet effect' - where withdrawing previously implemented policies like healthcare would do more political harm than good. But as usual, no-one has the balls.

 

Offline an0n

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Re: Another step backwards for British civil liberties.
Except the BNP.

Man, the next elections are gonna be a ****ing laugh a minute.
"I.....don't.....CARE!!!!!" ---- an0n
"an0n's right. He's crazy, an asshole, not to be trusted, rarely to be taken seriously, and never to be allowed near your mother. But, he's got a knack for being right. In the worst possible way he can find." ---- Yuppygoat
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Offline aldo_14

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Re: Another step backwards for British civil liber
The most wonderful thing about the ID card debate is where the Government have not even given a specific, workable scenario where the cards would help to combat crime or terrorism as they claim it will. Clarke could claim that having them increases your sex appeal or reduces the risk of cancer, and the public would lap it up, all under the magic umbrella that it's 'new technology'.

I think great political capital could be made from one of the opposition parties making a commitment to scrapping the scheme and undoing all the damage. It's not like the system will be anywhere near wide implementation in three years time, and they wouldn't be bound by the political 'ratchet effect' - where withdrawing previously implemented policies like healthcare would do more political harm than good. But as usual, no-one has the balls.

Hell, Clarke already admitted it couldn't have stopped the July 7th bombings, the day after they happened.  And as for immigration, seemingly the other big thing, it's entirely useless unless they make it compulsary (arguably, it becomes even more valuable when forged).  The only hope, really, is the inevitability that being so poorly planned, it'll run into massive budget and time problems, forcing a national scandal that causes a proper backbench rebellion.

 

Offline an0n

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Re: Another step backwards for British civil liberties.
Hopefully with guns.
"I.....don't.....CARE!!!!!" ---- an0n
"an0n's right. He's crazy, an asshole, not to be trusted, rarely to be taken seriously, and never to be allowed near your mother. But, he's got a knack for being right. In the worst possible way he can find." ---- Yuppygoat
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Offline aldo_14

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Re: Another step backwards for British civil liber
I think swords would be more appropriate, don't you?