Author Topic: UN Human Rights calls for closure of Gitmo  (Read 2286 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Flipside

  • əp!sd!l£
  • 212
UN Human Rights calls for closure of Gitmo
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4718724.stm

Not exactly surprising news as such, but thought it might be interesting. Theres a link to the report in the article.

My own personal feelings are that torture is wrong, we cannot sink to the same level as that which we are purportedly fighting against. However, I'm posting this is the spirit of information, so let's not let this sink into 'Teh US is teh evil!' or 'Teh UN is teh suxxor!' hmmm?

 

Offline Mefustae

  • 210
  • Chevron locked...
UN calls for the the closure of Gitmo.
It's been a while since we've had a thread on the issue...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4718724.stm

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/US/02/16/un.guantanamo/index.html

While the US will almost definitely ignore or sidestep it for now, it's a step in the right direction at least.

EDIT: Thanks very much, oh omnipotent admins. *Bows*  :)
« Last Edit: February 16, 2006, 07:29:59 am by Mefustae »

 

Offline aldo_14

  • Gunnery Control
  • 213
Re: UN Human Rights calls for closure of Gitmo
SYNCH!

 

Offline Mefustae

  • 210
  • Chevron locked...
Re: UN Human Rights calls for closure of Gitmo
I find it quite, quite humerous I started a thread at almost the exact same time, with almost the exact same name, and with the exact same link.

Spooky.

This one was first (by less than a minute), so this one should be the primary one, IMO.

 

Offline Roanoke

  • 210
Re: UN Human Rights calls for closure of Gitmo
if you believe the whole "overflights" scandal, and the Troopers beating those guys in Irag, we may have sank to "their" level already.

I post this without making any judgements regarding those soldier guys BTW. Untill I'm in a war with bullets and RPGs being chucked around around I'm not in a position to jude.

 

Offline Flipside

  • əp!sd!l£
  • 212
Re: UN Human Rights calls for closure of Gitmo
LOL Mefustae! That was spooky! :)

Yeah Roanake, my thoughts too, that's why I'm unwilling to start making statements of opinion regarding the people who did it.

 

Offline aldo_14

  • Gunnery Control
  • 213
Re: UN Human Rights calls for closure of Gitmo
I find it quite, quite humerous I started a thread at almost the exact same time, with almost the exact same name, and with the exact same link.

Spooky.

Yeah, well I was going to do the same thing...........

Anyways, as I said to me dad last night (who doesn't really get the whole complexity of the situation, it would seem - he's one of those Conservative-with-a-big-C reactionary middle class, middle aged golfer types), the whole situation is a disgrace.  Only a tiny proportion of people in Gitmo are actually charged or linked with terrorism; the vast majority are 'enemy combatants'; that is, any adult with a gun, casio watch and olive clothes (seriously; that was apparently the US requirements, which covers every person in Afghanistan).  Moreso, the US offered huge bounties for said enemy combatants, without requiring any sort of evidence; it meant the Northern Alliance (amongst others) could (and did) simply kidnap people and hand them over to the US army to get cash.  And of the relatively small amount of people who we can reasonably expect to be dangerous, they've never been convicted or sentenced for any crimes - in terms of law, they're still technically innocent.  Moreso, the US has reportedly been looking at re-allowing the death penalty for court martials - something which could then (and likely would) be applied to said detainees.

 

Offline aldo_14

  • Gunnery Control
  • 213
Re: UN Human Rights calls for closure of Gitmo
if you believe the whole "overflights" scandal, and the Troopers beating those guys in Irag, we may have sank to "their" level already.

I post this without making any judgements regarding those soldier guys BTW. Untill I'm in a war with bullets and RPGs being chucked around around I'm not in a position to jude.
Quote
Iraq 'death squad caught in act'

raq has launched an investigation into claims by the US military that an Iraqi interior ministry "death squad" has been targeting Sunni Arab Iraqis.
The probe comes after a US general revealed the arrest of 22 policemen allegedly on a mission to kill a Sunni.
"We have found one of the death squads. They are part of the police force," US Maj Gen Joseph Peterson said.

Quote
New Abu Ghraib images stoke US fears

The images are, as the state department's legal adviser put it, disgusting. Chained, terrified and humiliated Iraqis people the photographs.

One man - apparently deranged - slams his head against a wall while a video camera runs.

Detainees are forced to perform sexual acts. A young girl holds up her shirt, bearing her breasts for the soldier's camera.

A man stands naked and smeared with excrement.

These new images seem to depict abuse worse than anything we had already seen.

They imply much greater violence. Empty cells inexplicably spattered with blood, a man with a serious gash across his throat, another with blood leaking from a head wound, corpses, a torso dotted with small circular wounds - are they cigarette burns?

EDIT; whoops, should've edited in to the above post.  Apols.

 

Offline Kosh

  • A year behind what's funny
  • 210
Re: UN Human Rights calls for closure of Gitmo
I just wonder how long it will be until they start pulling this crap with their own citizens......
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

Brain I/O error
Replace and press any key

 

Offline aldo_14

  • Gunnery Control
  • 213
Re: UN Human Rights calls for closure of Gitmo
I just wonder how long it will be until they start pulling this crap with their own citizens......

I doubt they would, because they can't get away with it as easily.  The vast bulk of people in any country (sadly) are blindly patriotic enough to assume their country always does 'good' and forgive it's lapses as justifiable, or non-symptomatic, etc.  Abu-Ghraib becomes a few rogue troops, Gitmo because a home of evil terrorists who deserve to be held there, etc.

  

Offline Turambar

  • Determined to inflict his entire social circle on us
  • 210
  • You can't spell Manslaughter without laughter
Re: UN Human Rights calls for closure of Gitmo
thats why more people should watch galactica, to give them a greater understanding of the 'gray area' concept
10:55:48   TurambarBlade: i've been selecting my generals based on how much i like their hats
10:55:55   HerraTohtori: me too!
10:56:01   HerraTohtori: :D

 

Offline WMCoolmon

  • Purveyor of space crack
  • 213
Re: UN Human Rights calls for closure of Gitmo
Quote
The US invited the UN to the camp last year after years of requests, but refused to grant the investigators the right to speak to detainees in private.

Why does this sound familiar? Something about weapon inspectors...and Iraq...hmm, it'll come to me.
-C

 

Offline Cyker

  • 28
Re: UN Human Rights calls for closure of Gitmo
I just wonder how long it will be until they start pulling this crap with their own citizens......

I doubt they would, because they can't get away with it as easily.  The vast bulk of people in any country (sadly) are blindly patriotic enough to assume their country always does 'good' and forgive it's lapses as justifiable, or non-symptomatic, etc.  Abu-Ghraib becomes a few rogue troops, Gitmo because a home of evil terrorists who deserve to be held there, etc.

Not necessarily true - See, most here in the UK think all our leaders are lying lecherous thieving bastards, and oppose almost everything they do, but they still keep getting away with all sorts of crap.
See, we don't actually live in a democracy - It's actually a dictatorship where we get to pick the dictators.




 

Offline aldo_14

  • Gunnery Control
  • 213
Re: UN Human Rights calls for closure of Gitmo
I just wonder how long it will be until they start pulling this crap with their own citizens......

I doubt they would, because they can't get away with it as easily.  The vast bulk of people in any country (sadly) are blindly patriotic enough to assume their country always does 'good' and forgive it's lapses as justifiable, or non-symptomatic, etc.  Abu-Ghraib becomes a few rogue troops, Gitmo because a home of evil terrorists who deserve to be held there, etc.

Not necessarily true - See, most here in the UK think all our leaders are lying lecherous thieving bastards, and oppose almost everything they do, but they still keep getting away with all sorts of crap.
See, we don't actually live in a democracy - It's actually a dictatorship where we get to pick the dictators.

Absolutely; but there's a difference between the current situation of ****ing us up the ass in 5 years time, and doing it on the street with a truncheon.  People are very good at deluding themselves with 'if you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about' logic, so long as they can't actually see what's going on in their name, and it becomes a hell of a lot harder to hide it when it's in your country, to your neighbours.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

  • I reject your reality and substitute my own
  • 213
  • Syndral Active. 0410.
Re: UN Human Rights calls for closure of Gitmo
Abu-Ghraib becomes a few rogue troops, Gitmo because a home of evil terrorists who deserve to be held there, etc.

The media has painted the place as a disgrace (though they also sound more level-headed then the writers of that report when they do it; not the report itself, but the writer's comments to the press), so how that came to be is a real mystery from here on the street in the US of A.

As for Abu Ghirab, the US Army screwed up, and the real crime here is that they were allowed to get away with it. (So they can do it again in the future. The basic regs on the subject haven't been changed.) They gave the job to the wrong people and the results were predictable. Prisoners and dealing with them is supposed to be the province of the MPs and the MPs alone. They are the only people with the training (and perhaps worse, the discipline; more on that later) for it. Bad stuff happens when you give it to other people, it's been that way since at least WWII. There was some interesting commentary on the subject in an older issue of Proceedings to the effect that Congress and/or the Joint Chiefs should have torn everyone involved in half.

(On the other hand, it's worth noting that at least some of the vitrol in Proceedings was probably the result of the much higher standards, and much stricter attitude about upholding them, the USN and other sea services have in regards to prisoners and their treatment. This is generally true of any country's naval and land forces, perhaps a reflection of the different nature of naval warfare.)

Now, here's the kicker folks: As of late, some of the other services have been expressing concern on the general state of discipline in the Army. It has always been true that the Army holds to lesser standards then the Navy or the Marines. (The Air Force is...questionable, since they do descend from the Army; but then again, this kind of discipline isn't really required of them.) However, given such incidents as Abu Ghirab, and later reports from the field about violations of the altered instructions on the treatment of prisoners, some voices have been raised from the Navy and Marine Corps, saying that the Army can no longer effectively control their troops. The folks who write these articles in Proceedings may not be representive, considering the writers are generally field-grade or even junior officers, but the mere fact someone is raising the question is vaguely frightening.

Perhaps more tellingly, all detention operations in Iraq are being turned over to the Navy's Master-at-Arms people. (read that: Navy MPs.) The Navy is also taking over many logistical functions, and there is even some suggestion of the creation of naval infantry units. We had a post here that talked about the US Army falling apart five or ten years down the line...but it may be happening right now.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline Rictor

  • Murdered by Brazilian Psychopath
  • 29
Re: UN Human Rights calls for closure of Gitmo
I doubt they would, because they can't get away with it as easily.  The vast bulk of people in any country (sadly) are blindly patriotic enough to assume their country always does 'good' and forgive it's lapses as justifiable, or non-symptomatic, etc.  Abu-Ghraib becomes a few rogue troops, Gitmo because a home of evil terrorists who deserve to be held there, etc.

Lecherous? Dear God, I had no idea. The situation must be worse than I thought.


 

Offline Krackers87

  • 158 crew
  • 29
Re: UN Human Rights calls for closure of Gitmo
I find it quite, quite humerous I started a thread at almost the exact same time, with almost the exact same name, and with the exact same link.

Spooky.

This one was first (by less than a minute), so this one should be the primary one, IMO.
owned
Put this in your profile if you know someone who is fighting, has survived, or has died from an awp no scope.

just like seventies goofballs
he's waiting on last calls
well listen method man
'cause if you leave on the last line
don't leave on the ground kind
born just a little too slow

 

Offline karajorma

  • King Louie - Jungle VIP
  • Administrator
  • 214
    • Karajorma's Freespace FAQ
Re: UN Human Rights calls for closure of Gitmo
See, we don't actually live in a democracy - It's actually a dictatorship where we get to pick the dictators.

When you pick the lesser of two evils you are still picking something evil. Which pretty much points to the basic stupidity involved in democracy. Decent people don't run because they'll never win.
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 

Offline Janos

  • A *really* weird sheep
  • 28
Re: UN Human Rights calls for closure of Gitmo
See, we don't actually live in a democracy - It's actually a dictatorship where we get to pick the dictators.

When you pick the lesser of two evils you are still picking something evil. Which pretty much points to the basic stupidity involved in democracy. Decent people don't run because they'll never win.

Democracy is the worst form of government except for everything else [that has been tried]. It's compromises, shortsighted policies, populism and centralism. Paradoxically it's also progress and liberty.

People have strange notions about democracy. Democratic process only means that every now and then the people get to pick someone they like in a deciding positions. Yeah, democracy only really works with transparent government, powerful independent press, educated populace and relatively low corruption, but democratic process in itself does not actually require any of these things. Also, I would add that true representative democracy requires several parties furiously combating for seats in parliaments and governments which represent the entire spectrum of political continuum. It creates internal conflict which is essential for change, idealistic political stances and debating matters of national interest.

Also, democracy is essentially just that, picking up suitable leaders and changing suit when the old one is all raggy and torn to ****. It doesn't, nor it should, mean that people have a last say in urgent matters and foreign/economic policy. Democracy isn't a dictatorship of the masses, it's just choosing the right dictators. And obviously most democracies have built-in checks and balances - another positive side of multiple parties and constant political conflict! - to prevent one party or political ideology to get too much power.

lol wtf

 

Offline Kosh

  • A year behind what's funny
  • 210
Re: UN Human Rights calls for closure of Gitmo
Quote
We had a post here that talked about the US Army falling apart five or ten years down the line...but it may be happening right now.


And to think, the Army is falling apart based on occupying a relatively small middle eastern country. Now the US is thinking about taking out Iran (which is a different situation, and can be justified). But occupying a country like that is.....difficult at best. I just do not see how they can pull that one off.
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

Brain I/O error
Replace and press any key