[Kosh]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4765058.stm


He was caught lieing, red handed.

[Flipside]

Now Mr. Bush, how do we spell it?

I-M-P-E-A....

[Nix]

Let's see this "video", or at least a transcript.  Where the hell is the transcript??  If it's there, I certainly didn't see it.  But, anywho, I cant stand people who are pointing thier fingers at Bush saying "It's all his fault we didnt' recieve help after Katrina".  What the hell did Ray Nagin do?  He's no Juliani, for sure.  Comments he's made during, and after the hurricane (especially the "Chocolate City" remarks) give me a bad feeling that I just can't put my finger on.  I've heard reports of Nagin having transportation ready and waiting, but was never utilized when the hurricane hit. 

The Levees, it's silly, so silly to say that "BUSH didnt' upgrade our levees" or the more ridiculous (to the point of insanity) "BUSH blew up the levees" when the levees were only designed to prevent a Cat 3 storm, IIRC.  It's not Bush's fault for not upgrading the levees, it's the local and federal government's fault as a whole, because this problem has been there before Bush's time!  Unless there was specific legislation in the works to upgrade the levees under the Bush administration, it's unfair to say that Bush was the cause for levee failure. 

But I will admit, Bush is slipping, especially with this "PortGate" issue that's got parties mixed all over the place.  Hearing this on Hannity today, apparently DPWorld is supporting a boycott of Israel, which is illegal in the United States, to put it as simply as I heard it on the radio.  How could we let them take ownership of the ports if DPWorld is doing something the US Govt. considers illegal?   

[Flipside]

Indeed, my problem is not with the Levees not being upgraded, it is with Bush declaring that they never suspected if, in fact, they did suspect that Katrina would break them, and that people in the Dome would not be able to be properly helped. Lives might have been saved if it had been officially stated that there was a high risk of those Levees not holing.

It's 6am here, so I'll wait and see how the story develops to be honest, details are sketchy, and I'm sure more will come to light over the next 24 hours or so.

[Nix]

I'd just like to see more concrete proof before I blindly say that Bush really and truly did wrong.  Yeah, it does irk me that he was informed about the Dome refugees, and he did nothing about it right that moment, but IIRC, we had absolutley no idea Katrina would grow to be such a large storm.  I kept an eye on news reports on the storm itself and people thought it would only get up to a category 4 at most, untill it entered the gulf of mexico.  Once it did, and grew to a Cat5 storm, I don't think anyone could have done anything to save the levees, even if they're built specifically for Category 5 storms. 

[Mefustae]

I don't know if you were around HLP in the weeks following Katrina, Nix, but we had a rather lengthly thread regarding Bush, the Administration and the Levees that summed up quite well why Bush [as a term used to summarise the entire administration] was to ultimately to blame for the downright s***ty reponse, and to a lesser extent to the failing of the levees as well. It'd certainly be an interesting and enlightning read if you care to dig it up.

Back OT, i'm predicting that - if accurate - this thing'll be swept under the rug quite soon. Bush still has a few years left to run his nation into the ground, and he's going to be there for every one.

[Nix]

What I'm going off of is what I've heard on our two local AM news radio stations, and whatever little I've seen on the major news networks.  I purposely avoided the katrina thread because I knew that's exactly what would be discussed, and at the time it sounded like more typical anti-bush rhetoric. (which I do not find enlightining)
When it comes to the levee's themselves, it's illogical to say that Bush was the problem.  It's also illogical to say that we should have prepared for a Category 5 storm, when all indications of the storm pointed to being no more than a Category 4 at it's worst, untill the day before it made landfall.  This, I DID watch, each and every day it was talked about.  Delivering aid to the people affected by Katrina, yes, I would say Bush was at fault, but not a hundred percent at fault.  The mayor sure wasn't any help, and with the slow response of FEMA and the like, which ANYONE could or should have seen.  I would have thought that FEMA would have been there within hours, instead of what was it, four days?  I understand that with only a day or two in advance of really knowing what this storm was capable of, it'd be difficult for anyone's administration to respond to, not just Bush's, but I will agree that the amount of time it took them to get there was unacceptable. 

[Nuke]

its not so much lieing as being a total ****ign moron

[Goober5000]

Okay, look.  It's not the federal government's responsibility to deal with natural disasters.  It's up to the individual states.  Katrina isn't the first hurricane to hit the US, and FEMA being months late is the norm, not the exception.

You can certainly say the video exposes hypocrisy, but getting mad at the administration for doing nothing here is just shooting yourself in the foot in the long run IMHO.  What I find more troubling is the other, more substantive issues getting swept under the rug: illegal immigration, the Dubai port scandal, warrantless wiretapping, PATRIOT Act renewal, etc.

[WMCoolmon]

Doesn't mean a damn thing if nobody's got the balls to stand up and do something about it. (Or ovaries, for that matter)

There's a lot of people that are very unhappy because of the Bush administration's lies and coverups. But all they seem to be doing, as near as I can tell, is boosting the number of people watching the news so they have something new to ***** about.

[Flipside]

It's not a question of whether anything could have been done about it that is the problem. Whether this interview had taken place or not, nothing would have changed what happened during the storm.

The Hypocrisy is Bush denying that they even considered the possibility in light of this Video. It does seem like he was aware of the risk but lied after the fact.

Many people will not accept the first paragraph as enough to forgive the second.

[SadisticSid]

Look at the "right" alternative - if this video was indeed recorded on the eve of the storm. Had he relayed the sentiments to the general populace, it could have well started a disorganized, every-man-for-himself exodus that would have resulted in more death than simply reinforcing the belief that people would be generally safer by continuing with what they were doing. I don't think this even comes close to an impeachable offense, of which there seem plenty more to choose from.

[Flipside]

And you honestly think that most of America is going to see it that way? Especially when he denied on Public television that anyone thought the Levees were going to go?

Personally, I doubt it will lead to anything more than a slap on the wrist, at best, but we will never really know what would have been different if Bush had been honest, especially considering he was being told that the resources of the entire country would be needed to deal with the aftermath.

What it will be seen as by a large percentage of the US is 'Bush was warned, but they were black and poor, so he chose to do nothing.'. Right or Wrong has very little to do with these things.

[Grug]

LoL. What's with all the surprise, he's a politician for ****s sake!
Of course he lies, all national leaders do!

But I will admit, Bush is slipping, especially with this "PortGate" issue that's got parties mixed all over the place.  Hearing this on Hannity today, apparently DPWorld is supporting a boycott of Israel, which is illegal in the United States, to put it as simply as I heard it on the radio.  How could we let them take ownership of the ports if DPWorld is doing something the US Govt. considers illegal?

LoL at that too. It's not like the US is known for doing anything illegal or un-ethical, no. That illegal invasion of Iraq?
The use of unsanctioned weapons such as napalm etc?
The refusal to sign many national treaty's involving militarization?

Capitalism and democracy has one great flaw. Corruption.
Evident anywhere where in the world that 'uphold' these ideals you go.
Though I guess the same could be said for any type of government system.

[Bobboau]

I can't vote for Nagin, I can't vote for Blanko, I can vote for Bush, I have a feeling most people on this board are in a similar situation (actualy most can't even vote for Bush) therefore, this buck passing on his (and his suporters) behalf seems to only weaken my impression of his leadership abilities. beond this, it is his responcibility to ensure the safety of everyone in this country, he is the last line of defence, and he failed, miserably, in this role, and the result was that we essentualy lost one of our counties most important major cities. As I said, I can't vote for the local officals, I feel they should probly be voted out of office next term, but I can't vote for them, so I don't care what depths of incompotence they posesed, Bush on the other hand, I have to think, what will happen if someone sneaks a nuke across the border he has failed to secure and tries to take out the logistical comand center of of the US militart (wich I happen to work within sight of), a disaster of that scale WILL overwhelm any local capasity, and my fate will rest soley in the hands of the national government, led by Bush. I'm sory but if he failed at this, I have no confidence in his capacity to keep me safe, he has failed.

[Flipside]

LoL. What's with all the surprise, he's a politician for ****s sake!
Of course he lies, all national leaders do!

True, but the difference between a Good politician and one who is slipping is whether, and how spectacuarly they get caught.

[Turambar]

its not like that's the first time he lied
i love how, first, clinton lied about gettin some head, and everyone went crazy and tried to impeach him and he got in all kinds of trouble

then we get bush.  he lied about there being weapons of mass distruction, and started a war that cost thousands of US military lives as well as tens of thousands of Iraqi lives, based on that lie, and he has barely gotten in any trouble at all

where the **** is justice

[Mefustae]

where the **** is justice

Justice is an illusion. Always has been, always will be.

[Bobboau]

naw, justice is just a sysematic form of vengence, it exsists fall short of many peoples ideals though due to the sysematic nature, that provides loop holes, people should put more faith back into strait vengence.

[Rictor]

I find it interesting how Bush gets nailed for "mishandling" Katrina and "mishandling" Iraq, in other words being incompetent, but not for quite competently starting a war that has killed hunderds of thousands, not for competently curtailing civil liberties and all the rest. In other words, there's nothing America loves more than a winner, or hates more than a loser, regardless of the morality of the man's actions.