[Dwin]

Right, so I'm having some problems and errors regarding my mission.

1. I get the following error in the editor when I try to save:

 

Player starting wing Gamma has orders which dont match other starting wings

Could someone clarify what this means? What is a starting wing? Whatever the problem is, it seems to crash the game, so I can't just ignore it.

2. My Directives are appearing when they should not be. Don't the conditions specified for each event have to be completed in order for the directive text to appear?

Also, I'm able to warp out of the mission before all objectives are complete. How do I disable this ability until the end of the mission?

Thanks.

[Shade]

Never ran into the first problem, but the second is simple enough:

Directives appear when it is possible for the event to be made true, not when it actually is true/completed. Thus, for a directive attached to a "when wing is destroyed" type of event, the directive will show once the wing arrives as that's when it's possible to make the event true, and not once the wing is actually destroyed.

To get the effect you're looking for, instead attach the directive to an event that's chained to the first event, as it will then display once the first event completes.

The first way is the 'proper' way to use directives though, as they will then change into completed once the event does become true.

[Edit] Oops, overlooked the warp thing. You can use the break-warp/never-warp sexps to disallow warp when you want to, then allow it with fix-warp/allow-warp when the time comes.

[Dwin]

I see. Thanks for the quick reply.

I also figured out the first problem. I had one wing set to recieve orders from the player, while another was set to ignore player commands.

[Shade]

Glad to help. Directives can take some getting used to... not quite as intuitive as the rest of the editor due to the (rather intelligent, actually) way they behave.

[Dwin]

No, it's still not working properly. Here's what I have.

Narn destroyed (event)
--when
----percent-ships-destroyed
------100
------Narn
----sent-message
------Alpha 2
------High
------Narn destroyed

So, the directive message for this is supposed to appear when its possible for the event to occur, in which case, would be the destruction of the Narn ships. But, it's not possible for the Narn ships to be destroyed because they have not yet entered the mission. They're supposed to warp in at a later time. Yet the directive still appears.

[Shade]

Hmm, odd. That should work, you did it all right. I think the percent-ships-destroyed sexp might be to blame though. I'll test my theory and get back to you in a few.

[Edit] Ok... it would appear that the percent-ships-destroyed sexp is indeed the culprit. Using the exact same setup just with is-destroyed-delay instead worked fine, but as for you, using percent-ships-destroyed shows up from the start. I'm guessing that is doesn't actually check what the required percentage for triggering is, and since it can theoretically be set to 0, it could become true from the get go. In short, it's a bug.

I'll get it into mantis now, but until it gets sorted you can use is-destroyed-delay and then add in the list of ships you need dead. for the purposes of this particular event, the effect should be identical, just without the bug

[Dwin]

Thanks for your help. 

I'm also having the same problem with being able to warp out of the mission. I can end it before all the objectives are complete, and the directive that informs the player he/she can do so also appears when it should not. Now, do I have to specify when to disable/enable the ability to warp out, or is it automatic depending on the status of the objectives?

[Shade]

You need to set up events to change warp status yourself. Something like the following (pseudo-code):

Disallow warp
-When true
-Never-warp for player ship

Allow warp
-When all required objectives completed
-Allow warp for player ship

As for the return to base directive, yes, this one always gets people the first time. You usually need two events, one to check whether all needed objectives are completed (could be combined with the allow warp event), and after that, chained, something like this with the Return to Base directive text attached:

RTB
-When
--Has-Departed-Delay
---Player Ship
--Do-nothing

That should ensure that you get the RTB directive only when every required action has been performed. you may in some cases need several such events to deal with various allowed outcomes for the mission, but that's the basic way to do it.

[Dwin]

Thanks! Testing now...

[Dwin]

Yay! It worked! 

Now, to figure out the problem of the game crashing...

[karajorma]

Shade's doing a pretty good job here so I only have a few things to add

Right, so I'm having some problems and errors regarding my mission.

1. I get the following error in the editor when I try to save:

 

Player starting wing Gamma has orders which dont match other starting wings

Could someone clarify what this means? What is a starting wing? Whatever the problem is, it seems to crash the game, so I can't just ignore it.

This is caused by Gamma wing having initial orders that are different from the orders you've given to Alpha and Beta wings. Although FRED complains about it this absolutely should not be causing crashes in-game. If you are 100% certain that it is causing bugs you should submit it to Mantis for that it can be fixed.

If it is the cause you can simply make sure that all 3 wings have no initial orders and give the ships orders from the Events Editor instead as a workaround.

[Edit] Oops, overlooked the warp thing. You can use the break-warp/never-warp sexps to disallow warp when you want to, then allow it with fix-warp/allow-warp when the time comes.

Just in case you were wondering what is the difference between break and never-warp, click here.

[Dwin]

This is caused by Gamma wing having initial orders that are different from the orders you've given to Alpha and Beta wings. Although FRED complains about it this absolutely should not be causing crashes in-game. If you are 100% certain that it is causing bugs you should submit it to Mantis for that it can be fixed.

If it is the cause you can simply make sure that all 3 wings have no initial orders and give the ships orders from the Events Editor instead as a workaround.

Yea, I already fixed the problem. I thought it was initial orders at first, but turns out, it was player orders (or something like that).

And yea, it's not what is crashing the game. I'm currently investigating. In fact, I've made some changes, and am going to test them right now.

[Dwin]

Question: What's the purpose of the "do-nothing" SEXP?

[Shade]

To do nothing. Smart-assedness aside, it's there because:

a) Sometimes you may need to evaluate something simply to be used as a trigger for other events, for debriefings, or referenced in later missions
b) For directives with no action attached
c) Whatever else one might come up with

As an example, take the event from before (assuming the bug was fixed and all):

Narn destroyed (event)
--when
----percent-ships-destroyed
------100
------Narn
----sent-message
------Alpha 2
------High
------Narn destroyed

Now, imagine you didn't need any messages sent, but simply wanted the directive text to work. Then you'd use do-nothing instead of send-message, which lets the directive do it's thing but doesn't actually do anything event related.

[Dwin]

I see.

Well, I managed to fix the crashing problem. It was caused because the spawning fighter wing had a hotkey assigned to it.

So the gameplay portion of my mission has been completed. I'm hoping this will be one of a series of missions in a campaign. Thanks for helping me in the construction of the mission. Would you care to take it a step further and help test it? I want to know if I'm on the right track here. Plus, I've never watched an episode of Babylon 5 in my life, so you could also help me get everything "correct".

[Shade]

I can't really, cause I've never watched an episode of B5 either... (Denmark is a developing nation as far as Sci-Fi is concerned, all we ever get are reruns upon freaking reruns of utterly terrible american sitcoms. No B5, no SG1, no BSG, no S:AAB, not even Star Trek. Pity me) nor do I have the conversion installed since I upgraded my system. I just know FRED, that's all But I'll be happy to keep answering any fredding questions you may have.

A few general tips on testing though:

Test on several difficulty levels, ideally you should be able to at least beat it on Hard as you have foreknowledge of what will happen

Test all possible outcomes, including mission failures, and make sure they all have appropriate debriefings. Also, remember only one primary goal has to be completed for a mission to be flagged as a success, even if you have made several.

If you find youself confused about what to do at any point, so will anyone else, and an extra directive might be helpful. You can use them for all sorts of things, not just the generic 'destroy XXX'.

There's plenty more, but those are a start at least . Good luck

[karajorma]

Check the 14 common mistakes section of my FAQ if you haven't already. That should explain a whole bunch of the possible pitfalls that newbie FREDders run into.