[DaBrain]

I think FS2 (and therefore all it's mods and TCs) seemed to be a bit static. This has numerous reasons.

Let's fix this!

First we need more diversion in the game. Simple trick, big effect. Look at the fighter explosions. There are diferent explosions, cause it would be horrible to see one and the same ANI again and again. This random factor is a real plut to the game-feeling. But why is something like this only allowed for the fighter explosions?

I'd like to use random effects (at least two different) for a lot off stuff. The 'flak' explosions in the BSG mof for exaple would really really profit from this.

And the same thing about sounds.... We should have the possibility to assign multiple sound effects to one entry and make the engine choose them randomly.


FS2 really needs more randomness to get a bit more realistic.

[Mehrpack]

hi,
i agree, some variantions are not so bad.

its maybe posible, that the debris of capital ships choise random?
maybe you have 8 debris per ship and 3 or 4 choise the game if the capital ship die.
so i think you have a lot more variations if a ship are death.

(and another thing is that you doesnt have so much ship variations for convoys.
i mean, if you protect an military convoy or a civil convoy theres no different.
or stations, theres only the arcadia and the gaynimend docking ring as default.
yes i know a campain can use there own models, but you have to download it every time and i think if you make an "addon" its the better way.)

Mehrpack

[Kaine]

I think FS2 (and therefore all it's mods and TCs) seemed to be a bit static. This has numerous reasons.

Let's fix this!

First we need more diversion in the game. Simple trick, big effect. Look at the fighter explosions. There are diferent explosions, cause it would be horrible to see one and the same ANI again and again. This random factor is a real plut to the game-feeling. But why is something like this only allowed for the fighter explosions?

I'd like to use random effects (at least two different) for a lot off stuff. The 'flak' explosions in the BSG mof for exaple would really really profit from this.

And the same thing about sounds.... We should have the possibility to assign multiple sound effects to one entry and make the engine choose them randomly.


FS2 really needs more randomness to get a bit more realistic.

yes.

if you put the functionality in (and i think having multiple skins for any given model that are randomly chosen or set in FRED would be another awesome addition) the FSUP crew would use it, i have no doubt. if i had more time on my hands i'd get working on some cool fighter skins with pilot names & customizations on them. it'd give the game a truckload more character and immersiveness.

[DaBrain]

While different skins would be a nice feature too, I'd tend to avoid them. The ram usage of FSO is already very high. More effects and different skins would be a far too high performance hit.

If we get material shaders we could make some parameters in some shaders randomly variable in a certain room. So all ships will look a bit a different.

I wouldn't go crazy with the effects either. Only some effects would really profit from this. Especially the flak effect. You see it very often, but even more important, you see many of these effects at once(!)

There won't be two shockwave animations. They take up too much ram.


I can imagine this stuff very well, that's why I suggest it. It will make a big difference.

[Backslash]

Excellent ideas in the variation of effects and sounds.  You're right, we can't go too crazy ADDING new animations... (though we might consider it for those ubersystem people [not me, but someday]) but how about changing the existing stuff?

I've been looking at the particle system code, and it looks like there's some great ways to customize things that could be opened up.  One of my ideas involves using an 'effects table', much like the weapons table.  As ships can pick "some" weapons, so weapons (and ships) should pick from "some" effects.  I may not be being entirely clear yet, but this isn't ALL just wishful talking... once I get the thing to actually compile I'm going to try stuff!  Course, I may be biting off a lot more than I can chew... but maybe I can at least get us started.

A lot of the stuff inspiring me is already found in fs2_open/code/ship/shipfx.cpp...  take a look at the function "maybe_fireball_wipe"...   down where there's options between normal and FS2_DEMO.  See, there's stuff about number of particles, range, velocity, lifetime, size, and more.  And the PARTICLE_SMOKE2 is hardcoded.  Instead, imagine perhaps something like (pseudocode):

Code: [Select]

$Name:  popcorn
$ParticleInfo:
   +PCountMin:          40           ;; minimum particles spewed
   +PCountMax:          80
   +PRadiusMin:         0.5          ;; particle radius
   +PRadiusMax:         3
   +PVelMin:            0
   +PVelMax:            100
  +PLifeMin:           2
  +PLifeMax:           10
   +PAni:               particlesmoke02      ;; particle aniObviously there's a lot to add, and a lot to think through (particularly in how the code actually implements this table, or picks which effect in the table to use).  And in this case, in the code it currently relies on knowing the fighter's speed and size, which may be tricky to deal with if switching to tables... (maybe use these as multipliers?)  But maybe you get the beginning glimmer of my idea?

Now if I can just get compiling to work

[bfobar]

I would say that the best place for this would be (computationally) small effects that you see a lot of. missle tails, laser hit ani's, and the small explosions come to mind. Another good one may be a few extra terran, vasudan, and shivan chunks that get randomly spawned when a ship blows up. Eon's ago, I had a thread asking if flickering glowmaps could be synched up with badly damaged ship hull lightning. I think that would be a good addition for randomness too. Maybe a few different things besides lightning would be good there too, like a little particle fountain instead of a bolt once and a while.

[Kaine]

While different skins would be a nice feature too, I'd tend to avoid them. The ram usage of FSO is already very high. More effects and different skins would be a far too high performance hit.

thats why it would be a launcher option... and the randomized effects we're talking about really wouldn't be that RAM intensive, unless for some stupid reason you decide you need high-res smoke sprites. also having skin groups (ala half-life) would allow having variations in the standard model textures without loading whole skinmaps, only smaller sections. point is, its do-able.

incidentally, what kind of RAM usage do you call "Very high"?

[Prophet]

few extra terran, vasudan, and shivan chunks that get randomly spawned when a ship blows up.

And while you're at it, change the capship explosions to look better. Because, as we all know, there isn't much to cheer about on how they do it now.

[DaBrain]

Excellent ideas in the variation of effects and sounds.  You're right, we can't go too crazy ADDING new animations... (though we might consider it for those ubersystem people [not me, but someday]) but how about changing the existing stuff?

I've been looking at the particle system code, and it looks like there's some great ways to customize things that could be opened up.  One of my ideas involves using an 'effects table', much like the weapons table.  As ships can pick "some" weapons, so weapons (and ships) should pick from "some" effects.  I may not be being entirely clear yet, but this isn't ALL just wishful talking... once I get the thing to actually compile I'm going to try stuff!  Course, I may be biting off a lot more than I can chew... but maybe I can at least get us started.

A lot of the stuff inspiring me is already found in fs2_open/code/ship/shipfx.cpp...  take a look at the function "maybe_fireball_wipe"...   down where there's options between normal and FS2_DEMO.  See, there's stuff about number of particles, range, velocity, lifetime, size, and more.  And the PARTICLE_SMOKE2 is hardcoded.  Instead, imagine perhaps something like (pseudocode):

Code: [Select]

$Name:  popcorn
$ParticleInfo:
   +PCountMin:          40           ;; minimum particles spewed
   +PCountMax:          80
   +PRadiusMin:         0.5          ;; particle radius
   +PRadiusMax:         3
   +PVelMin:            0
   +PVelMax:            100
  +PLifeMin:           2
  +PLifeMax:           10
   +PAni:               particlesmoke02      ;; particle aniObviously there's a lot to add, and a lot to think through (particularly in how the code actually implements this table, or picks which effect in the table to use).  And in this case, in the code it currently relies on knowing the fighter's speed and size, which may be tricky to deal with if switching to tables... (maybe use these as multipliers?)  But maybe you get the beginning glimmer of my idea?

Now if I can just get compiling to work

Very very nice. "effects.tbl" That's sounds like a good way to do it. Too bad I can't support you with the coding stuff, but I'll support you in any other way (probably artistically) if you need it. 

While different skins would be a nice feature too, I'd tend to avoid them. The ram usage of FSO is already very high. More effects and different skins would be a far too high performance hit.

thats why it would be a launcher option... and the randomized effects we're talking about really wouldn't be that RAM intensive, unless for some stupid reason you decide you need high-res smoke sprites. also having skin groups (ala half-life) would allow having variations in the standard model textures without loading whole skinmaps, only smaller sections. point is, its do-able.

incidentally, what kind of RAM usage do you call "Very high"?

Well, compared to other games, FSO uses a lot high-res stuff. The current trend is to use low res maps + normal maps, but as long as FSO doesn't support this, we'll mostly see very detailed maps. Maybe too detailed, because you'll never get that close to a fighter. The textures take up the most memory, even compressed. If you double the ammount of maps, FSO will probably need around ~65-80% more memory in addition. That's way too much imo.

You wouldn't see the difference very much anyway, unless you're close enough to two ships at once to see the details. If you want a completely differernt looking ship, you could just use a new one, or the same model with another skin. We don't need a coded random factor here.

[bfobar]

I think a good thing to remember is what can and can't be done with fredding and modding as it stands. If you can mod in some textures and stick them in a mission in fred, then I think it's mission accomplished. Primary weapon effects are the first thing I think of for randomization because they're small, you see a ton of them up close on any mission that isn't recon, and they're all exactly the same.