Author Topic: US Supreme Court asked to limit Bush's wartime powers  (Read 4298 times)

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Offline Ford Prefect

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Re: US Supreme Court asked to limit Bush's wartime powers
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Do you think nihilism is somehow inherently better than other ideologies? If so, why?
It's not an ideology. Nihilism, to draw from Nietzsche's description of it, is the vacuum resulting from the failure to successfully apply meaning to existence. It is impossible to proactively seek nihilism because the very act of seeking nothingness becomes, in and of itself, an application of meaning to one's existence. For individuals and societies, nihilism is a temporary state of crisis in between temporary illusions of purpose.
"Mais est-ce qu'il ne vient jamais à l'idée de ces gens-là que je peux être 'artificiel' par nature?"  --Maurice Ravel

 

Offline Grug

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Re: US Supreme Court asked to limit Bush's wartime
How about a Fallout 2 esque environment?
Or Mad Max?

As for the whole government thing. I think one day Bush and possibly other members of the coalition may see the light of war crimes tribunals.

As for china. I think Australia is already heading along those lines, with many ways of our econemy being influenced / slowly emulating China's development...

  

Offline Nuke

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Re: US Supreme Court asked to limit Bush's wartime
yep, nuke the world its time to start over :D

hey, we don't want to have any part in this stupidity of yours thanks now go away

dont confuse nihilism for stupidity.
Do you think nihilism is somehow inherently better than other ideologies? If so, why?

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mankind has maintained the same cycles for millinia with no true progress. if you cant progress its better to nuke the planet every 10000 years and start over. if it renderes the world dead, noone would be left to care. furthermore people are also rather arrogant about the effectiveness of nuclear weapons. you could drop every bomb in the arsonal and nature would win every time. nukes are a good way to reset the human decadence meter though. its like spraying for bugs, no mater how much raid you use, they will be back.

this human decadence is rather interesting please tell me about greece and sumeria and france and soviet union and how they are similar and just what this True Progress would be and how would one measure it if not by standards measurable to us


like ford said nihilism is a state of existance where everything becomes convoluted to the point of meaninglessness. once this state is reached (and i believe it has been) there really is no longer any room for evolution and humanity as a spiecies will stagnate.

there is no true progress. what there is is a buildup of knoledge. eventually the knoledge base becomes so convoluted and redudnant that its better to format and start over than to work around it. knoledge may increase our capabilities but it doesnt change our core essence. the humans we have today arent much different from what was around tens of thousands of years ago. any level of sophistication is irrelevant.

as for the countrys there really all the same, the differences are minor. thinking of it as a machine, they all try to do the same thing. with the same imputs (the people), and the same outputs (survival of the whole, maintainance of the nation). so compairing france to russia in my mind is like compairing honda to harley, you have a motorcycle either way. tyranny tends to have a strong leadership, and are actually far more guided than say a democracy which makes disicions based on statistics created by voting. but i find that either way they break about even. the system of nations is caught in an infinite loop and will continue. on my computer when something locks up or wont close, i use the reset button.
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

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Offline aldo_14

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Re: US Supreme Court asked to limit Bush's wartime
So nihilism is a philosophy that abdicates any responsibility by blaming the underlying system, and does not advocate improving that system or even taking steps to prevent that recurrance, in favour of starting from scratch with no safeguards nor retention of positive aspects of modern society?

 

Offline Kosh

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Re: US Supreme Court asked to limit Bush's wartime powers
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As another note, China has emissions of 2.2 metric tons CO2 per capita, whereas the US has about 19.8 metric tons per capita. Reportedly China has made voluntary cuts in emissions too, and plans to make more, albeit obviously you have to take statements of intent from a dictatorship with a hefty pinch of salt.

It actually has been trying to reduce air pollution, but in Beijing the effort is being swamped by an explosion in private car ownership. Everyone wants to be like the Americans in this country and drive a car, and that is why I don't want to live in Beijing.
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

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Offline Ford Prefect

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Re: US Supreme Court asked to limit Bush's wartime powers
So nihilism is a philosophy that abdicates any responsibility by blaming the underlying system, and does not advocate improving that system or even taking steps to prevent that recurrance, in favour of starting from scratch with no safeguards nor retention of positive aspects of modern society?
Again, this is arguably not true nihilism because it is advocating a course of action based on merit. An absolute state of nihilism is a complete abandonment of any reality based in the assumption of larger truth. It is inherently an "anti-philosophy", and in this state one submits to the absurdity of one's innermost thoughts, or to the primal impulses of random destruction and hedonism. You can't be completely nihilistic while advocating anything as the preferable course, because "preferable" implies inequality of validity, and in a state of absolute meaninglessness everything is equally valid and equally invalid. The only reason a nihilist advocates anything is for ****s and giggles.

The lesson: If someone tells you he or she is a nihilist, be quite skeptical because if the person has any cares or desires that can only exist in relation to society, (which is basically everything unless you subscribe to the largely rejected notion of the self-sufficient individual), he or she has submitted to artificial human constructs.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2006, 01:24:07 pm by Ford Prefect »
"Mais est-ce qu'il ne vient jamais à l'idée de ces gens-là que je peux être 'artificiel' par nature?"  --Maurice Ravel

 

Offline Grug

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Re: US Supreme Court asked to limit Bush's wartime
LoLs, so nihilism is basically a form of confusion? :p

 

Offline Ford Prefect

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Re: US Supreme Court asked to limit Bush's wartime powers
Yeah that's pretty much it-- confusion brought on by coming face to face with the vastness of existence. We can't function with just the truth; we all need to live a lie in order to survive. Nihilism is the result of thinking too hard about that.
"Mais est-ce qu'il ne vient jamais à l'idée de ces gens-là que je peux être 'artificiel' par nature?"  --Maurice Ravel

 

Offline Grug

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Re: US Supreme Court asked to limit Bush's wartime
*shrugs*
Each to his own I guess. :)

 

Offline aldo_14

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Re: US Supreme Court asked to limit Bush's wartime
So nihilism is a philosophy that abdicates any responsibility by blaming the underlying system, and does not advocate improving that system or even taking steps to prevent that recurrance, in favour of starting from scratch with no safeguards nor retention of positive aspects of modern society?
Again, this is arguably not true nihilism because it is advocating a course of action based on merit. An absolute state of nihilism is a complete abandonment of any reality based in the assumption of larger truth. It is inherently an "anti-philosophy", and in this state one submits to the absurdity of one's innermost thoughts, or to the primal impulses of random destruction and hedonism. You can't be completely nihilistic while advocating anything as the preferable course, because "preferable" implies inequality of validity, and in a state of absolute meaninglessness everything is equally valid and equally invalid. The only reason a nihilist advocates anything is for ****s and giggles.

The lesson: If someone tells you he or she is a nihilist, be quite skeptical because if the person has any cares or desires that can only exist in relation to society, (which is basically everything unless you subscribe to the largely rejected notion of the self-sufficient individual), he or she has submitted to artificial human constructs.

Advocacy need not be intentional.

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: US Supreme Court asked to limit Bush's wartime
essentially nihilisim is what you get when you lock a atheist science type and a hard core christian in a room and tell them they cant leave untill they reach a consensus on how the universe was created. they will rant endlessly and solve nothing. because of that they will stay there till they die of starvation or kill eachother. the world is essentially the same right now but with more people and more space.
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

Nuke's Scripting SVN

 

Offline Grug

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Re: US Supreme Court asked to limit Bush's wartime
essentially nihilisim is what you get when you lock a atheist science type and a hard core christian in a room and tell them they cant leave untill they reach a consensus on how the universe was created. they will rant endlessly and solve nothing. because of that they will stay there till they die of starvation or kill eachother. the world is essentially the same right now but with more people and more space.

Depends on your experience and stance on life.
Is life itself not worth living?
Is it not a reason in its own for defending the right to live, freely, safely, and most importantly happily? :)

...and if that's not enough, how about sex? ;)

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: US Supreme Court asked to limit Bush's wartime
the act of living is tedious and redundant to the point where i question the concept of free will. under free will thered be more variation.
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

Nuke's Scripting SVN

 

Offline Grug

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Re: US Supreme Court asked to limit Bush's wartime
the act of living is tedious and redundant to the point where i question the concept of free will. under free will thered be more variation.
:(
There is some truth behind that, the conformity of society for example. But still, a life at that is better than no life at all?

Still, I try and live my own way. I'm considered weird by many people, but at least I'm having fun and laughing my ass off at others reactions along the way. :D I do all kinds of 'crazy' ****, the kind that gets the "ok..."  or "right..." reaction from some people. I find it ****ing hilarious. For example, I havn't slept last night, its morning atm, and I have to go to uni very soon for some team meeting ****. I'll be seeing **** and a bit flipped out all day. Looking forward to it, see how many people I can **** with. :p

But hey dude, try to never feel bad about it. I get down sometimes, but I always recuperate and eventually find some inspiration for the art forms I love so much. :)
If you were local, I'd meet up with you at a pub one day and have a few beers, talk ****, and just relax and have a good time. :D

 

Offline Janos

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Re: US Supreme Court asked to limit Bush's wartime
the act of living is tedious and redundant to the point where i question the concept of free will. under free will thered be more variation.

does it matter
lol wtf

 

Offline Rictor

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Re: US Supreme Court asked to limit Bush's wartime powers
Progress has occured, but it has been completely independent of any religion, empire or philosophical outlook. All that stuff we call history is just background noise when you look at what progress really has come about. Namely, technology. It has been a linear progression since, well, since as long as mankind has been mankind. Wars, plagues and whatnot have made no dent to its progress, and now we're finally starting to see the results of several millenia of exponential growth.

This is, frankly, an immensly frightening concept, since it means that the dominant over-arching pattern in human history is independent of our actions. Mankind is definitely going somewhere, except that we have no control over the direction and have only recently even become aware of the fact that we are moving at all.

The problem is not that people are too evil or petty or intolerant, it's that they're not evil, petty and intolerant enough, since we stand on the verge, sadly, or doing away with all that.

The lesson: If someone tells you he or she is a nihilist, be quite skeptical because if the person has any cares or desires that can only exist in relation to society, (which is basically everything unless you subscribe to the largely rejected notion of the self-sufficient individual), he or she has submitted to artificial human constructs.

See, I would take even further and say that while nihilism can exist as a mental concept, it does not exist in reality. It does not exist in actual people as an actual belief. There are no living nihilists, because the will to live is still a will (say that three times fast) and nihilism is the rejection of all will, all initiative. Anyone who says he's a nihilists is most certainly not
« Last Edit: April 02, 2006, 08:15:45 pm by Rictor »

 

Offline Kosh

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Re: US Supreme Court asked to limit Bush's wartime powers
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The problem is not that people are too evil or petty or intolerant, it's that they're not evil, petty and intolerant enough,

Considering the greed, the "me first" attitude, and the xenophobia that is quite common in this country, I must disagree with you.
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

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Offline Ford Prefect

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Re: US Supreme Court asked to limit Bush's wartime
Nihilism does exist, but as a temporary state. I can personally attest to having periodic bouts with nihilism, but nobody lives in that state permanently. And some also believe that nihilism can exist on the cultural scale as well as the individual. (Nietzsche, for instance, believed that civilization under Christianity was approaching a nihilistic crisis because it no longer believed in itself.) But yes, as a declared belief, I think you're right. The act of declaring it essentially negates the concept.

As for progress, as I think I've argued before, the word implies movement toward happiness. Happiness is, by definition, the ultimate telos or we have no reason to exist at all. If, however, we are condemned to the same patterns of violence, subjugation, and suffering, then one has to ask how progress is truly possible, despite the alteration of our external, empirical reality through technology. It's a question that's highly deceptive in its apparent simplicity, but one that people devote their entire careers attempting to answer.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2006, 02:08:36 am by Ford Prefect »
"Mais est-ce qu'il ne vient jamais à l'idée de ces gens-là que je peux être 'artificiel' par nature?"  --Maurice Ravel

 

Offline Bobboau

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Re: US Supreme Court asked to limit Bush's wartime
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The problem is not that people are too evil or petty or intolerant, it's that they're not evil, petty and intolerant enough,

Considering the greed, the "me first" attitude, and the xenophobia that is quite common in this country, I must disagree with you.

but is it consitered evil?
I beleive rictor's point was that things that should be consitered evil are not, they are rationalised away as a good thing or they are relitivised away with non-jugmentalism, when they are infact plainly quite bad.

that or he was being sarcastic.
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Offline Kosh

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Re: US Supreme Court asked to limit Bush's wartime powers
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but is it consitered evil?

Yes, because those things, especially greed, causes people to do really bad things.
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

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