[Kosh]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4871078.stm

Iran has tested what it says is the world's fastest underwater missile, designed to elude radar and destroy enemy submarines.

Americans, by driving their gas guzzling SUVs, are supporting Iran's weapons programs. Go figure.

[Mefustae]

Who are they going to use 'em on, though? The only nations with the balls to try to drop Iran could do so with little effort. I mean, sure, they've got a missile that can travel fast and looks to be a relatively good ASW, but they'll need to find 'em first, and somehow I doubt Iran has the technology to detect the RN's Trafalgar class or upcoming Astute class, the USN's Los Angeles or new Virginia class boats, or even the Russian's Akula-IIs [NATO]...

edit: goddamn i've gotta stop reading Tom Clancy... 

[Nix]

How did you pull "where our oil money is going" out of that article anyway?  The article says nothing about it, implied or direct.

America bashing fer teh win?  It's old. 

[Rictor]

Well the West  consumes lots of gas, which is bought from Iran, which enables them to finance an advanced weapons program.

That aside, the torpedo is damn cool. If there's no trickery involved, it appears to be a supercavitating torpedo based on the Russian Shkvall. AFAIK, there are only 5 nations in the world that are even testing such technologies, and they're all bigger and richer than Iran. If this thing iis the real deal, Iran has just made it considerably harder and more costly to wage war against them. Even if the missle is the unguided variety that existed in Russia a decade ago, they can still effectively blockade and Strait of Hormuz through which something like 20% of the world's oil supply flows, as well being able to possibly neutralize a carrier battlegroup entering the Persian Gulf. Of course the problem is getting close enough to a carrier to make the missle effective, which is difficult but not impossible.

[aldo_14]

Albeit the US wouldn't need naval assets to invade Iran (although they'd be handy, particularly for launching cruise missile strikes), thanks to good ole Iraq.

[Rictor]

Nah, Iraq has explicitly forbidden the US to launch any attacks from its territory, and it seems the government is finally developing a backbone. Besides, you have Iraq crawling with Iran-friendly militias who are just itching for a fight. Which is the major reason why I think an attack is unlikely; Iran has the ability to make life very uncomfortable for US troops without risking a single of their soldiers or declaring war.

[aldo_14]

Nah, Iraq has explicitly forbidden the US to launch any attacks from its territory, and it seems the government is finally developing a backbone. Besides, you have Iraq crawling with Iran-friendly militias who are just itching for a fight. Which is the major reason why I think an attack is unlikely; Iran has the ability to make life very uncomfortable for US troops without risking a single of their soldiers or declaring war.

Pff, what would the Iraqis do?  Launch an insurgency?

I don't think a war is likely (Israeli airstrikes with covert US intel / assistance is a fair bit more likely IMO), but I doubt Iraq could really do anything if the US decided to partition off part of the border and launch an assault, as IMO you'd see the civil war erupt as various groups take advantage of the vacuum created by both likely US troop movements and the obvious complete lack of power the Iraqi government has.  The US are certainly getting sandbagged in to various sites, anyways, so they're in Iraq to stay and I think the question is not whether those eventual permanent bases will have latitude to be able to act against Iran but whether they'll be able to get the numbers in there.

[Kosh]

How did you pull "where our oil money is going" out of that article anyway? The article says nothing about it, implied or direct.

America bashing fer teh win? It's old.

Most of Iran's income comes from oil sales, and a lot of that goes to the West (namely America). Work it out.

[NGTM-1R]

Most of Iran's income comes from oil sales, and a lot of that goes to the West (namely America). Work it out.

Do you actually have proof they're selling it to the US, or what? Last I checked most US oil came from folks on the other side of the Gulf.

In any case, it's a variation upon a Russian weapon (like most supposed homemade Middle Eastern weapons are), that wasn't too good at what it did. It's very fast, but it's impossible to make the thing actually home on something, it has depth-control problems, premature detonation problems, and it's not suitable for shallow-water use. It can dive to as much as 200 feet before it can level out after launch from a surface ship or aircraft. That takes a lot of the Gulf out of consideration. -(No submarine testing ever took place AFAIK, but the Russian version is deployed as an encapsulated torpedo-type mine.)

There's also the problem of actually getting these things into action. You'd have to find a submarine to use it on; as has been observed, Iranian ASW capability is nearly nonexistant. The entire Iranian Air Force would be hard-pressed to penetrate the defenses of a surface action group centered on an AEGIS ship, never mind a real CVBG. The only real hope of successful delievery would the small number of Kilo-class submarines Iran owns, but I'm not sure the weapon is compatible with being fired out of a torpedo tube at all, much less the torpedo tubes on the Kilos. And the Kilos may not be operational currently. Their status is unclear; they don't leave the harbor very often, never have. The last issue of Proceedings, the annual International Navies one, observed that the Iranian Kilos hadn't left pierside in something like five months as of early Feburary. And in any event, in a shooting war you can bet that they'll be the first ones to go. They're not kept in a ready-to-go-to-sea condition; before they would be ready they would have been sunk by aircraft or Tomahawk strikes.

When you get right down to it, the real threat of the Iranian Navy has never been advanced weaponry. It's the annoying number of little motorboats with machineguns and RPGs. They called them Boghammers during Operation Praying Mantis. You don't need weaponry all that powerful to get the merchies to stop sailing.

[Nuclear1]

Well the West  consumes lots of gas, which is bought from Iran, which enables them to finance an advanced weapons program.

True, but those Western countries are primarily composed of France, Italy, and Germany--all of which guzzle very little gas when compared to the USA.

And great work on the research, Kosh. America banned most imports from and business with Iran in 1979 (oil in '79, most everything else due to the Iran and Libya Sanctions Act of '96). China is actually one of Iran's biggest economic partners, so go figure--the Chinese are actually funding Iran's advanced weapons program.

America primarily gets oil from Saudi Arabia (where about 20% of SA's oil exports go to the USA) and other countries, like ngtm1r said, on the Saudi-side of the Gulf.

[MatthewPapa]

Dude kosh, dont make stuff up.

I cant believe you are blaming America and their vehicles for arming Iran with missiles.

most of the US's oil comes our latin american neighbors and canada
iirc only like 15% makes it here from the middle east (divide that percentage again with saudi arabia and its miniscule), most of Iran's market is in Europe and Asia

[Nix]

Iran's income may come from oil sales, but do you honestly think that each and every single drop of oil that Iran produces goes straight to America?  It's just common sense that the oil America purchases comes from closer sources, to reduce the cost of importing it to America.  Also, assuming that ALL Americans drive vechicles with low fuel economy is simply stupid.  More new models of passenger cars today are made to conserve more gasoline per mile, and with more cars featuring hybrid drives (foreign or domestic) it's a step in the correct direction.  At least we have a choice now if we want to conserve gasoline!

Making a controversial statement is just fine, but it just looks like you're looking for another reason to bash America.

[Mefustae]

The only real hope of successful delievery would the small number of Kilo-class submarines Iran owns, but I'm not sure the weapon is compatible with being fired out of a torpedo tube at all, much less the torpedo tubes on the Kilos.

Somehow I doubt vintage Diesel-Electric Subs, much less export versions that may or may not have SA-N-10 Gimlet or SA-N-8 Gremlin launch capability, would have any chance against most modern Navies. Plus, the Hoot looks like it's primarily surface-ship ordnance, so IMO it's doubtful they'll be adapted with submarine-launch capability anytime soon...

[Deepblue]

Kosh just got pwned.

[Night Hammer]

Americans, by driving their gas guzzling SUVs, are supporting Iran's weapons programs. Go figure.

So I assume you walk, ride a bike, or drive an electric powered car everywhere?

[aldo_14]

Americans, by driving their gas guzzling SUVs, are supporting Iran's weapons programs. Go figure.

So I assume you walk, ride a bike, or drive an electric powered car everywhere?

To be fair, he just has to not drive a 'gas guzzling SUV' but something with a sensible level of mpg to qualify to make that statement.

[Kosh]

Americans, by driving their gas guzzling SUVs, are supporting Iran's weapons programs. Go figure.

So I assume you walk, ride a bike, or drive an electric powered car everywhere?

When I lived in the US, I would usually walk or take a bus (which still has much better gas milage than a Ford Excursion). I could never have afforded a car.

Now I just ride a bike.

Dude kosh, dont make stuff up

You should try it sometime, it's fun.

[Ghost]

It also makes you look stupid.