[aldo_14]

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/farright/story/0,,1749555,00.html

[karajorma]

Now I've seen everything.

[an0n]

The BNP has never been a wholey racist organization.

It's just it's got strong anti-immigration policies and it tends to serve as a focal point for the extremists.

[karajorma]

It has enough racist ****heads in it that I doubt many people would ever have thought they'd get into this situation though.

And policies like forced repatriation etc do tend to argue against it not being wholly racist.

[aldo_14]

The BNP has never been a wholey racist organization.

It's just it's got strong anti-immigration policies and it tends to serve as a focal point for the extremists.

Yes, because a party which wants to repatriate nth generation immigrants to their country of (parent/grandparent/etc) 'origin' (to be fair, currently changed to 'voluntary' repatriation, although critics contend their actual manifesto simply obfuscates the forced part) ,which was founded by the chairman of the National Front (a neo Nazi; John Tyndall, who claimed that liberal democracy was a Jewish tool of world domination that needed replaced with authoritairianism) and is currently led by a Nick Griffin (anti semite/holocaust denier who referred to it as the 'Holohoax' and criticised David Irving for conceding 'some' Jews could have died, called gay people 'repulsive' in response to the 1999 Soho pub bombing of said group, was convicted in 1998 of inciting racial hatred, and who helped host white power concerts in the 1980s - amongst other things), could never, ever, possibly be racist.

[an0n]

Personally, I'd rather have a leader who discriminated against ethnic groups I was not a part of than one who tried to march me off to war.

Besides which, none of the BNP's racist policies are feasible. They'd get 'intervened'.

[aldo_14]

Personally, I'd rather have a leader who discriminated against ethnic groups I was not a part of than one who tried to march me off to war.

Besides which, none of the BNP's racist policies are feasible. They'd get 'intervened'.

Yes, we all know you're a spineless coward who would rather exploit the weak than endure the slightest discomfort.  But that doesn't make the BNP any less of a repulsive organisation, especially as in order to be able to enact said policies they'd need to be....in power.  Y'know, mass support, police and army control, etc.

[karajorma]

Besides which, none of the BNP's racist policies are feasible. They'd get 'intervened'.

So now we've gone from they're not racist and never were to they're racist but really bad at planning? 

[Kie99]

Slightly off topic but anyway:

The BNP or a similar party will get into power within a generation.  Other 15 year olds I have spoken to have said we should ban "pakis" from breeding, and "not let any more of them in."  It's like reading a history book on the build-up World War II.  Those I have spoken to resent "pakis" doing well in society, and think they should be always below white people in society.

The BNP tap into that and use it to get into positions of power, much like the Nazis did.

There is so much xenophobia that something like World War II is bound to happen, but against Muslims instead of Jews.  A lot think this is a good thing.

[aldo_14]

Slightly off topic but anyway:

The BNP or a similar party will get into power within a generation.  Other 15 year olds I have spoken to have said we should ban "pakis" from breeding, and "not let any more of them in."  It's like reading a history book on the build-up World War II.  Those I have spoken to resent "pakis" doing well in society, and think they should be always below white people in society.

The BNP tap into that and use it to get into positions of power, much like the Nazis did.

There is so much xenophobia that something like World War II is bound to happen, but against Muslims instead of Jews.  A lot think this is a good thing.

Y'know, I don't think so myself.  Because the idiots are always the loudest; but I remember the big community effort to draw together (to make asylum seekers feel safer and included in the community) in the wake of a racist killing of an asylum seeker in Sighthill, the BNP being hounded out of Pollockshields when they tried to capitalize upon the racist killing of a white kid by Asians, or the protests in Aberdeen when the BNP tried to organize a march there.  I think there is a worrying (i.e. >0) level of racism, but I'm not sure it's the kind that leads to actual murder or true hate, but rather the stupid excuses for their own inadequacy that get shown up and regretted as soon as the person sees actual true racism and true hatred, and where it leads.

[karajorma]

Yep. Support for the BNP has actually been falling recently. Not many people are buying their claims that they're not racist. Expressing support for Hitler every chance they get really doesn't help with that.

[Bobboau]

and there goes any chance they ever had of getting any power in the next twent years, it's unfortunate that they are the only real nationalistic party.

[vyper]

[q]the BNP being hounded out of Pollockshields when they tried to capitalize upon the racist killing of a white kid by Asians,[/q]

While I don't support the BNP I have to say this is somewhat ironic. The associates of the people who killed that lad, or rather the community that protected them in the immediate aftermath is seen as the victim when someone points out their duplicity. Not only that but our own police admitted to being afraid to investigate racist crimes where asian gangs were at fault for fear of being called racist.

The BNP may be dangerous. Reviling them for not agreeing with us, and ignoring the root problem in all this, is even more dangerous.

As for this particular event, I think it shows the problem when relatively intelligent people try to mass support from relatively dumb people. The upper echelons of any party has a far more focused understanding of its ideology than the petty followers. A good example comes from Freespace and Bosch's NTF "cattle" line. The individuals who chose this candidate obviously actually believe the more moderate public line the BNP uses about how they want to demand better integration. The grass roots has no interest in this, since they're ignorant, often uneducated and driven by hate and fear - they don't want a complicated situation because a complicated situation would require someone else to be in charge. Those who are intelligent enough to comprehend the situation yet oppose ethnic candidates will be the ones who are seeking to hold on to power.

[aldo_14]

and there goes any chance they ever had of getting any power in the next twent years, it's unfortunate that they are the only real nationalistic party.

a) they never had any chance
b) 'only real nationalistic party'?!  What do you define as 'real nationalistic'?

[vyper]

and there goes any chance they ever had of getting any power in the next twent years, it's unfortunate that they are the only real nationalistic party.

UKIP - nationalism without racism.  (I'm thinking of selling that tag line to them.)

[aldo_14]

and there goes any chance they ever had of getting any power in the next twent years, it's unfortunate that they are the only real nationalistic party.

UKIP - nationalism without racism.  (I'm thinking of selling that tag line to them.)

Deputy Leader Mike Nattrass once stood as a candidate in the Dudley West by-election as a NBP (New Britain Party), a party known to be anti-immigration and somewhat racist. Source: The Observer 2001

Aidan Rankin - former co-author of the UKIP manifesto - member of the Third Way, a breakaway party from the National Front. Source: The Independent 3 June 2004

Alastair McConnachie - former UKIP candidate - Holocaust denier Source : The Guardian

Martyn Heale – Former UKIP South Thanet Branch Chairman, now Agent and Campaigns Manager - former National Front branch organiser and candidate. Source: The Guardian

Mark Deavin – Post Graduate Student of Dr Alan Sked, a London School of Economics lecturer and UKIP founder – Links to the British National Party Source : The Guardian

It's quite funny when Robert Kilroy Silk (!) calls the party "bloody Right-wing fascist nutters".

[vyper]

Yes and almost all of the old guard of the Labour party have links to communism from back in ther college/uni days. That doesn't mean Labour are about to raise the red star over Westminster.

Edit: And at one time I argued vehemently in support of George W. and the invasion of Iraq. I expanded my knowledge of the situation and changed my opinion. Does my earlier affiliation however mean I am automatically at risk of rekindling my unpopular viewpoint? You're applying the same logic.

[aldo_14]

Yes and almost all of the old guard of the Labour party have links to communism from back in ther college/uni days. That doesn't mean Labour are about to raise the red star over Westminster.

(more likely to be a different kind of authoritarian flag nowadays)

Sorry, how many Labour MPs actually stood for seats as Communist party members?

EDIT;
[q]Edit: And at one time I argued vehemently in support of George W. and the invasion of Iraq. I expanded my knowledge of the situation and changed my opinion. Does my earlier affiliation however mean I am automatically at risk of rekindling my unpopular viewpoint? You're applying the same logic.[/q]

It's an entirely different context.  There's a difference between, for example, being an idealistic student joining the Communist Party at uni, and being (for example) the National Front branch organizer in Hammersmith.

Interesting to consider this quote of the founder of UKIP, Dr Alan Sked who left in 1997 complaining of extremism, about the party; "aged xenophobes ... meaningless fuddy duddies with very little intelligence".  Sked also said that Nigel Farage, a UKIP MP, said "We will never win the nigger vote. The nig nogs will never vote for us." during an arguement over a statement in the membership form opposing discrimination against minorities.

[karajorma]

It's quite funny when Robert Kilroy Silk (!) calls the party "bloody Right-wing fascist nutters".

And that's before you mention that whole incident with UKIP's Godfrey Bloom saying that you shouldn't employ women of childbearing age on practically his first day as a Euro MP.

[Rictor]

Well, Wikipedia says that 90% of England is white and 72% is Christian (with atheist accounting for another 15%), so I think that any sort of "our heritage is under threat" platform is unfounded. Once you start seeing WASPs sliding below 60 or 70%, then it's time to bring out the nationalism card.