Author Topic: Crew complement  (Read 8158 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline FireCrack

  • 210
  • meh...
Where's that picture of a human in the Ursa's gun, anyway?
actualy, mabye not.
"When ink and pen in hands of men Inscribe your form, bipedal P They draw an altar on which God has slaughtered all stability, no eyes could ever soak in all the places you anoint, and yet to see you all at once we only need the point. Flirting with infinity, your geometric progeny that fit inside you oh so tight with triangles that feel so right."
3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944 59230781640628620899862803482534211706...
"Your ever-constant homily says flaw is discipline, the patron saint of imperfection frees us from our sin. And if our transcendental lift shall find a final floor, then Man will know the death of God where wonder was before."

 

Offline TrashMan

  • T-tower Avenger. srsly.
  • 213
  • God-Emperor of your kind!
    • FLAMES OF WAR
Bismark "class" battleship:
   Length - 251m
   Crew compliment - 2,092

Gee, maybe those all those turrets in the Sobek need to be controlled by crew!! Nah... I'm just dreaming...

sure they do...But check the numbers again..

The Nimitz, with all of it's aricraft has 5984 crew. Of that nuber 2800 are FLIGHT CREW, while the rest falls down to ship mantainance and guns (even carriers have some gunz and missile launchers)

Now take somethnig bigger than the Bismarck - the Iowa for example - with a total number of over 100 barrels pointing somewhere and needing mantainance
Here are the stats:

Qty     Weapon
9    16-inch/50 caliber Guns (Mark 7) (406mm)
20    5-inch/38 caliber DP Guns (Mark 12) (127mm)
80    40mm/56 Anti-Aircraft
49    20mm/70 Anti-Aircraft

The highest crew number ever was 2600, but during the gulf war and after the modernization it had 1500 crew.
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline Ghostavo

  • 210
  • Let it be glue!
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
And how old is fighter technology compared to say... beam weaponry?

Speaking of which, now that you refer maintenance, what is going to need more, a 333x76.8x41 m^3 vessel or... er... what is the volume of a sobek again?

Also note the need for space ships to have greater power outputs (I'd imagine it would take much more crew than a water vessel), the engines, etc...
"Closing the Box" - a campaign in the making :nervous:

Shrike is a dirty dirty admin, he's the destroyer of souls... oh god, let it be glue...

 

Offline Prophet

  • 210
  • The know-it-all
Um... Do I really have to remember that the Sobek is an ALIEN space ship! They could have a friggin' coffee machine that needs two flatheads to operate it. Or maybe Vasudans like crowds. We cannot know. Bottom line is that we know that the crew can physically fit inside the hull. That is the only useful comparison modern day naval vessels can supply us. The rest just has to wait until we get someone onboard a Sobek with a notebook a lots of pencils.
Just argue about the terran vessels. Since we all should have reasonably good idea about their internal structure, design philosopies, machinery and purpose.
I'm not saying anything. I did not say anything then and I'm not saying anything now. -Dukath
I am not breaking radio silence just cos' you lot got spooked by a dead flying ****ing cow. -Sergeant Harry Wells/Dog Soldiers


Prophet is walking in the deep dark places of the earth...

 

Offline Polpolion

  • The sizzle, it thinks!
  • 211

 

Offline TrashMan

  • T-tower Avenger. srsly.
  • 213
  • God-Emperor of your kind!
    • FLAMES OF WAR
And how old is fighter technology compared to say... beam weaponry?

Speaking of which, now that you refer maintenance, what is going to need more, a 333x76.8x41 m^3 vessel or... er... what is the volume of a sobek again?

Also note the need for space ships to have greater power outputs (I'd imagine it would take much more crew than a water vessel), the engines, etc...

Age?
Carries were there during WW2. Their crew numbers INCREASED.  Crew numbers on battleship decreased over time.
Granted, most of the smaller guns were removed during the refit or replaced with other weapons, but so did hte gun numbers on carriers.

older carriers had far more guns and approximately the same number of planes. Crew numbers increased.
Old BBs had more guns before. Crew number decreased.

Seeing a pattern here?
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline Ghostavo

  • 210
  • Let it be glue!
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
I don't know where you are getting your numbers, because from what I can see the air crew actually decreased over time.

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/aj.cashmore/usa/usa-convcarrier.html

The increase in overall crew was made not by aircraft related work, but by the carrier itself's need aparently.

See patern here? The watercraft itself needs more crew to do whatever they do, not the aircrafts.
"Closing the Box" - a campaign in the making :nervous:

Shrike is a dirty dirty admin, he's the destroyer of souls... oh god, let it be glue...

 

Offline TrashMan

  • T-tower Avenger. srsly.
  • 213
  • God-Emperor of your kind!
    • FLAMES OF WAR
Eh? Chekc your own numbers:

Midway

 As built:
4120 total
Refitted:
2500 crew
2200 air group

Coral Sea
 As built:
4120 total
Refitted:
2820 crew
1860 air group

Not much of a difference according to these numbers.
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline Ghostavo

  • 210
  • Let it be glue!
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Eh? Chekc your own numbers:

Midway

 As built:
4120 total
Refitted:
2500 crew
2200 air group

Coral Sea
 As built:
4120 total
Refitted:
2820 crew
1860 air group

Not much of a difference according to these numbers.

Er... Are your numbers for the Coral Sea correct?
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/aj.cashmore/usa/carriers/midway/coralsea.html  :confused:
And both are Midway class...

I didn't really understand your post.
"Closing the Box" - a campaign in the making :nervous:

Shrike is a dirty dirty admin, he's the destroyer of souls... oh god, let it be glue...

 

Offline NGTM-1R

  • I reject your reality and substitute my own
  • 213
  • Syndral Active. 0410.
Generally during a ship's service crew numbers will rise; this is a function of the nature of design. A ship is built, and then over the course of its career will have various things added to it (the Midway wasn't built, for example, with storage for nuclear weapons, a SINS, or nearly as many radars and other sensor gear as it ended its career with), causing the number of crew to rise. The next class, however, will have fewer crew then its predecessor did at construction, due to more automation and the fact that various obselete or dated items have been removed.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline StratComm

  • The POFressor
  • 212
  • Cameron Crazy
    • http://www.geocities.com/cek_83/index.html
Eh? Chekc your own numbers:

Midway

 As built:
4120 total
Refitted:
2500 crew
2200 air group

Coral Sea
 As built:
4120 total
Refitted:
2820 crew
1860 air group

Not much of a difference according to these numbers.

+300 crew, -300 flight crew for a newer ship isn't a big difference?  Did I get transported to antimath land?

Er... Are your numbers for the Coral Sea correct?
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/aj.cashmore/usa/carriers/midway/coralsea.html  :confused:
And both are Midway class...

I didn't really understand your post.


Don't bother, this is a religious argument for him.  Don't let things like "facts" and "logic" think you've won the battle, because he will come right back at you with more easily countered assertions.  I'd link threads where we've had this debate before, but I really can't be bothered with search out.

Could an admin please pre-emptively fork and lock the crew figures mess?  We all know where it's going.
who needs a signature? ;)
It's not much of an excuse for a website, but my stuff can be found here

"Holding the last thread on a page comes with an inherent danger, especially when you are edit-happy with your posts.  For you can easily continue editing in points without ever noticing that someone else could have refuted them." ~Me, on my posting behavior

Last edited by StratComm on 08-23-2027 at 08:34 PM

 

Offline Mars

  • I have no originality
  • 211
  • Attempting unreasonable levels of reasonable
Sorry, really didn't mean to start all this. Will locking the thread kill the poll?

 

Offline StratComm

  • The POFressor
  • 212
  • Cameron Crazy
    • http://www.geocities.com/cek_83/index.html
Yes, locking the thread closes everything.  That's why I asked for only the pointless "how many crew..." parts to be forked off (split into a seperate thread) and that thread locked.  It's not terribly common practice but it can be done.
who needs a signature? ;)
It's not much of an excuse for a website, but my stuff can be found here

"Holding the last thread on a page comes with an inherent danger, especially when you are edit-happy with your posts.  For you can easily continue editing in points without ever noticing that someone else could have refuted them." ~Me, on my posting behavior

Last edited by StratComm on 08-23-2027 at 08:34 PM

 

Offline Mefustae

  • 210
  • Chevron locked...
Yes, locking the thread closes everything.  That's why I asked for only the pointless "how many crew..." parts to be forked off (split into a seperate thread) and that thread locked.  It's not terribly common practice but it can be done.
Can't we just split it off and let it run its course? Honestly, that Battleship thread we had a while back was as entertaining as our ritual Religion threads. :)

 

Offline Goober5000

  • HLP Loremaster
  • 214
    • Goober5000 Productions
Yes, locking the thread closes everything. That's why I asked for only the pointless "how many crew..." parts to be forked off (split into a seperate thread) and that thread locked. It's not terribly common practice but it can be done.

Show me where to split, and I shall. :)

 

Offline Prophet

  • 210
  • The know-it-all
I think we should just shoot the one who brought up the crew issue and ritualisticly burn his carcass. Maybe that would calm things down?  ;)
I'm not saying anything. I did not say anything then and I'm not saying anything now. -Dukath
I am not breaking radio silence just cos' you lot got spooked by a dead flying ****ing cow. -Sergeant Harry Wells/Dog Soldiers


Prophet is walking in the deep dark places of the earth...

 

Offline aldo_14

  • Gunnery Control
  • 213
Yes, locking the thread closes everything.  That's why I asked for only the pointless "how many crew..." parts to be forked off (split into a seperate thread) and that thread locked.  It's not terribly common practice but it can be done.
Can't we just split it off and let it run its course? Honestly, that Battleship thread we had a while back was as entertaining as our ritual Religion threads. :)

Too soon, too soon.  You need a good break for certain topics before we can haul out the carcass of the last thread and give it a good flogging.

 

Offline TrashMan

  • T-tower Avenger. srsly.
  • 213
  • God-Emperor of your kind!
    • FLAMES OF WAR

+300 crew, -300 flight crew for a newer ship isn't a big difference?  Did I get transported to antimath land?

Excuse me, but those numbers are for two different ships that had different upgrades. Note that the Midway and Coral Sea, despite being the same class, weren't completely indentical either, as changes were made during construction.

Quote
Don't bother, this is a religious argument for him.  Don't let things like "facts" and "logic" think you've won the battle, because he will come right back at you with more easily countered assertions.  I'd link threads where we've had this debate before, but I really can't be bothered with search out.

Could an admin please pre-emptively fork and lock the crew figures mess?  We all know where it's going.

LOL...I see you're back to you old "insult the other one and paint him as a fanatical nut" method.
Real cute... I was hoping you might actually grow up and discuss this in a rational and civil way.

Guess I overestimated you...
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

  

Offline NGTM-1R

  • I reject your reality and substitute my own
  • 213
  • Syndral Active. 0410.
I believe the phrase we're (i.e. everyone else in the friggin' forum) looking for here on Stratcomm's statement is "QFT."
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline StratComm

  • The POFressor
  • 212
  • Cameron Crazy
    • http://www.geocities.com/cek_83/index.html
See, this is why I wanted this topic locked as well as forked.  Can't come to any form of good.

Excuse me, but those numbers are for two different ships that had different upgrades. Note that the Midway and Coral Sea, despite being the same class, weren't completely indentical either, as changes were made during construction.

Then qualify what those differences are and what the hell you're trying to prove by posting them.  I see two crew numbers, a list of total crew before and a breakdown after, which shows that the newer of the two ships has fewer flight crew and more ship crew than the older.  If there's a difference in fitting, that should have been clarified when you posted the numbers in the first place.  Even saying it was due to upfitting would have said something about what it was supposed to mean, even though it still wouldn't prove any point.

LOL...I see you're back to you old "insult the other one and paint him as a fanatical nut" method.
Real cute... I was hoping you might actually grow up and discuss this in a rational and civil way.

Guess I overestimated you...

Do you really want me to post the contents of your last PM to me, Trashman?  Really?  You really can't go flying off the handle in accusations since you've got just as much of a history with that in this debate as anyone.  Ergo I wanted this thread locked before we came to this; rational and civil are two words that have never described this debate.  Ever.

[EDIT for clarification]Since this thread does appear to still be open, I'll humor you and actually raise the points of concern.[/EDIT]

First, plase bear in mind that we're still talking about crew figures from Freespace ships.  Not the US navy, not during WWII, not ten years ago, and not today.  Secondly, we're dealing with a large number of unknowns.  How big are reactors?  Weapons?  Power distribution systems?  The habitable compartments?  Storage areas?  The hangers?  Do we have canonical proof that any one of those things corresponds even remotely to any form of wet navy analogy?  Do we know how many people it takes to man a plasma launcher?  A high-powered laser battery?  A cluster missile launcher where the missile is the size of my car?  A photon beam emission system?  Do we have any clue?  How about the fact (seemingly ignored... over and over) that we're talking about something that operates in the vacuum of space, not in an atmosphere where any crew duty can be performed in the outside air?  What does that change about the complexities of maintenence for a ship with an operational cycle spanning years?  Quoting things from Star Trek would be about as relevant (my disdain for trying to associate anything canonically Trek with anything not part of Trek should be noted, by the way) as trying to say "this ship was X in WWII, so ships in Freespace must be Y".  There is plenty of inferences that can be made off of the things we do know about the Freespace ships, but they all support larger crews for weapon, energy, and engine staffing than flight crew.  That's not to say that the flight crew is tiny, but it certainly has nothing to do with how big the crew for the actual ship is.  If you want to have an argument about historical vessels, go to a naval warfare forum and bug people there.  Here we're debating Freespace.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2006, 12:33:44 pm by StratComm »
who needs a signature? ;)
It's not much of an excuse for a website, but my stuff can be found here

"Holding the last thread on a page comes with an inherent danger, especially when you are edit-happy with your posts.  For you can easily continue editing in points without ever noticing that someone else could have refuted them." ~Me, on my posting behavior

Last edited by StratComm on 08-23-2027 at 08:34 PM