Author Topic: Cap-ship coversions!?  (Read 36288 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline S-99

  • MC Hammer
  • 210
  • A one hit wonder, you still want to touch this.
Re: Cap-ship coversions!?
Lol
Very true on the capships exiting in the vector in which they entered.
But, that completely matters on which vector the ship entered the node now doesn't it? I bet if you entered a node from the very top of it, you exit the other side in a different system coming out from the bottom.
If you wanted to position mjolnirs to fire at the ass end of a ship, you could just set up mjolnirs to take advantage of the average exit vector of a node. Most ships on average exit a node coming straight out from the front of it horizontal, the only exception to the average, is sometimes the vessel is upside down. Also the other exception to how ships enter or exit a node at different angles is due to maneuverability. A fighter can fly all around a corridor as it wants, usually taking out pirates or something, but it a deimos is in a corridor, it never maneuvers, because there's no point to it other than exiting the node or blasting anything that comes close to it. Corvettes, cruisers, destroyers, and transports, usually only go in straight lines because they maneuver like my mom. That's why you usually see fighters enter and exit subspace at different angles, and the most variation you see in capships and transports is maybe they went in upside down. As far as exiting the node in the position or vector you were in, probably depends on the nodes convergeance with real space and where you're located in the node.
Every pilot's goal is to rise up in the ranks and go beyond their purpose to a place of command on a very big ship. Like the colossus; to baseball bat everyone.

SMBFD

I won't use google for you.

An0n sucks my Jesus ring.

 

Offline Ghostavo

  • 210
  • Let it be glue!
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: Cap-ship coversions!?
WEll you have good points there aldo. But as stated above the Mjolnir firing vector is fixed while the exit vector of subspace is not. Or at least so everyone says. I mean there is no proof there has to be only one exit vector. The idea was just that: to take the existing Mjolnir and bolt it onto a ships hull so that its firing vector is no longer fixed. That would greatly improve the RBC's eficenci and make it a far deadlyer weapon then the existing version. Also who says you have to have the mjolnir encased in anything. Just expose it to the vacuum of space. I mean surely they can find a way of dooing that and still puting it onto a ship.

Also id didnt say that the shivans wont take advantage of existing unstable jumpnodes its just that i doubght there that many of them the shivans can use. I mean a star sistem can have only so much conections. And you would imagine the GTVA would be focusing on fiding everyone of them. I would suspect that given the recent knossos tech aquired by the GTVA they will be capable of improving theyr detection techniques of the mentioned jumpnodes. Also here is a question i wanted to ask: If the knossos device can act as a jumpnode seeling device then does that mean the gtva could actualy close off jumpnodes that could be used by the shivans to enter GTVA space?

I mean open them when they want and close them when they want? Because that would be great if you ask me. Imagine them opening a jumpnode to the nebula send in a task force colect rawmaterials for a while then retreat back to the safety of the jumpgate!

Like I said in another thread, the knossos can't seal off nodes.
"Closing the Box" - a campaign in the making :nervous:

Shrike is a dirty dirty admin, he's the destroyer of souls... oh god, let it be glue...

 

Offline AlphaOne

  • !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • 210
Re: Cap-ship coversions!?
Bummer. Then why werent the shivans able to get to GD sooner? I mean the node was there and they must of had some idea of its stabilaty!
Die shivan die!!
Then jumps into his apple stealth pie and goes of to war.What a brave lad....what a brave lad say the ladies in red.
 

(\_/)
(O.o)
(> < ) 

This is Bunny . Copy  Bunny  into your signature to help him on his way to world domination!

 

Offline Mars

  • I have no originality
  • 211
  • Attempting unreasonable levels of reasonable
Re: Cap-ship coversions!?
Probably wasn't stable enough even for Shivans

 

Offline S-99

  • MC Hammer
  • 210
  • A one hit wonder, you still want to touch this.
Re: Cap-ship coversions!?
I was thinking the reason why the mjolnir was so powerful, was probably one of the facts that it's a completely independent structure designed only for one purpose. It has a power supply, and big beam cannon, everything on the mjolnir is devoted to the beam firing aspect of it. It's a whole entire platform devoted to beaming. It doesn't need to worry about life support or other weapons mounted on it, it can have probably a higher heat tolerance than the beams built into ships. The mjolnir can keep going as it wishes until it overloads or something like that. The fact that the mjolnir is a dedicated platform for 100% beamage, is probably one of the reasons gtva was able to make it a lot more powerful than beams on ships.
But, mjolnirs can be automated, or they can operate with tag missiles.
Another thing that would be cool, is if their was something like the mjolnir, but like half the size or something, had multiple turrets, and just be a AAA beam platform that could be very fun, and protective as all hell. :nod:
Every pilot's goal is to rise up in the ranks and go beyond their purpose to a place of command on a very big ship. Like the colossus; to baseball bat everyone.

SMBFD

I won't use google for you.

An0n sucks my Jesus ring.

 

Offline Mars

  • I have no originality
  • 211
  • Attempting unreasonable levels of reasonable
Re: Cap-ship coversions!?
I just want a Mjolnir that can turn around.

 

Offline Trivial Psychic

  • 212
  • Snoop Junkie
Re: Cap-ship coversions!?
I just want a Mjolnir that can turn around.
Actually, when the Hi-Poly Mjolnir was released, a re-positioned version was exported at the same time.  It had been re-oriented so that the beam end was front-facing rather than upward-facing as in the :V: version.  I'm not sure if it was included in the MediaVPs or not, but since it faces forward, all you need is altered tables to give it rotational mobility and then give it attack orders.
The Trivial Psychic Strikes Again!

 

Offline Mars

  • I have no originality
  • 211
  • Attempting unreasonable levels of reasonable
Re: Cap-ship coversions!?
Sexy, and the search works to... thanks.

 

Offline Ghostavo

  • 210
  • Let it be glue!
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: Cap-ship coversions!?
Bummer. Then why werent the shivans able to get to GD sooner? I mean the node was there and they must of had some idea of its stabilaty!

I tried to answer this in this very thread... :doubt:

Quote
The shivans started appearing after the Knossos was activated not because the node was "unlocked" but probably because they were drawn to it, just like they seem to be drawn to any subspace using race.
"Closing the Box" - a campaign in the making :nervous:

Shrike is a dirty dirty admin, he's the destroyer of souls... oh god, let it be glue...

 

Offline AlphaOne

  • !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • 210
Re: Cap-ship coversions!?
well that as hell sure dosnt make any sence. I mean why bother stayng all that time in the nebula then all of a sudden get out blast the oposition and then head off to capella to bloow the star. This is basicly what the shivans did! It just doesnt make any sence!
Die shivan die!!
Then jumps into his apple stealth pie and goes of to war.What a brave lad....what a brave lad say the ladies in red.
 

(\_/)
(O.o)
(> < ) 

This is Bunny . Copy  Bunny  into your signature to help him on his way to world domination!

 

Offline aldo_14

  • Gunnery Control
  • 213
Re: Cap-ship coversions!?
Like I said in another thread, the knossos can't seal off nodes.

We don't actually know that.


WEll you have good points there aldo. But as stated above the Mjolnir firing vector is fixed while the exit vector of subspace is not. Or at least so everyone says. I mean there is no proof there has to be only one exit vector. The idea was just that: to take the existing Mjolnir and bolt it onto a ships hull so that its firing vector is no longer fixed. That would greatly improve the RBC's eficenci and make it a far deadlyer weapon then the existing version. Also who says you have to have the mjolnir encased in anything. Just expose it to the vacuum of space. I mean surely they can find a way of dooing that and still puting it onto a ship.

Why on earth would they bolt it onto a ship rather than bung on a couple of engines?  The whole advantage of a Mjolnir is based around not being part of a ship.  Moreso, if you affix more than one Mjolnir onto a ship then you are automatically limiting the positions that can be fired from due to keeping those Mjolnirs together.

Also id didnt say that the shivans wont take advantage of existing unstable jumpnodes its just that i doubght there that many of them the shivans can use. I mean a star sistem can have only so much conections. And you would imagine the GTVA would be focusing on fiding everyone of them. I would suspect that given the recent knossos tech aquired by the GTVA they will be capable of improving theyr detection techniques of the mentioned jumpnodes. Also here is a question i wanted to ask: If the knossos device can act as a jumpnode seeling device then does that mean the gtva could actualy close off jumpnodes that could be used by the shivans to enter GTVA space?

Quote
The vast majority of subspace nodes are extremely unstable, forming and dissipating in nanoseconds. Other nodes have a longer lifespan, existing for centuries or millennia before collapsing. The jump nodes sanctioned by the GTVA for interstellar travel are expected to remain stable for many years.


errr then how the hell can the fighters move around subspace coridors. I mean that sort of beats the logic. If u enter a certain vector then you must maintaind that vector in order to exit the same vector. but then again you are actualy dogfighting in the subspace coriodor. Isn't that sort of..i dont know...ilogical....? I'm no expert i'm just here for the answers.

How would you know the entry vector (given that we're talking about positioning weaponry?  Not to forget subspace is non-relativistic.

 

Offline Ghostavo

  • 210
  • Let it be glue!
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: Cap-ship coversions!?
Like I said in another thread, the knossos can't seal off nodes.

We don't actually know that.

Then why didn't the Ancients just build Knossos devices all over their empire and stopped the Shivans from destroying them?
"Closing the Box" - a campaign in the making :nervous:

Shrike is a dirty dirty admin, he's the destroyer of souls... oh god, let it be glue...

 

Offline aldo_14

  • Gunnery Control
  • 213
Re: Cap-ship coversions!?
Like I said in another thread, the knossos can't seal off nodes.

We don't actually know that.

Then why didn't the Ancients just build Knossos devices all over their empire and stopped the Shivans from destroying them?

Dare I suggest the obvious?

a) there wasn't time
b) there wasn't the resources with an ongoing war
c) they didn't have charts of all the nodes the Shivans could use
and
d) the Shivans used their subspace abilities to jump into tactical positions where they could prevent any such devices being created.

 

Offline Ghostavo

  • 210
  • Let it be glue!
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: Cap-ship coversions!?
Like I said in another thread, the knossos can't seal off nodes.

We don't actually know that.

Then why didn't the Ancients just build Knossos devices all over their empire and stopped the Shivans from destroying them?

Dare I suggest the obvious?

a) there wasn't time
b) there wasn't the resources with an ongoing war
c) they didn't have charts of all the nodes the Shivans could use
and
d) the Shivans used their subspace abilities to jump into tactical positions where they could prevent any such devices being created.

Oh :nervous:
forgot about that one
"Closing the Box" - a campaign in the making :nervous:

Shrike is a dirty dirty admin, he's the destroyer of souls... oh god, let it be glue...

 

Offline AlphaOne

  • !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • 210
Re: Cap-ship coversions!?
Oh well then all the GTVa has to do is map every conceivable jumpnode that the shivans may use and seel them all! Oh wait..thats imposible....! Oh well then i guess theyl get theyr behinds blown all the way to Sol!
Die shivan die!!
Then jumps into his apple stealth pie and goes of to war.What a brave lad....what a brave lad say the ladies in red.
 

(\_/)
(O.o)
(> < ) 

This is Bunny . Copy  Bunny  into your signature to help him on his way to world domination!

 

Offline Mars

  • I have no originality
  • 211
  • Attempting unreasonable levels of reasonable
Re: Cap-ship coversions!?
Actually, when the Hi-Poly Mjolnir was released, a re-positioned version was exported at the same time.  It had been re-oriented so that the beam end was front-facing rather than upward-facing as in the :V: version.  I'm not sure if it was included in the MediaVPs or not, but since it faces forward, all you need is altered tables to give it rotational mobility and then give it attack orders.
Well it was a nice idea, seems, in order to turn around, a ship needs engines.

Edit:
Now it works (it was my bad tabling skills) this is the coolest thing ever, I'm inspired.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2006, 05:02:21 pm by Mars »

 

Offline TrashMan

  • T-tower Avenger. srsly.
  • 213
  • God-Emperor of your kind!
    • FLAMES OF WAR
Re: Cap-ship coversions!?
What seems to be most relevant is...... the Mjolnir was developed as a remote beam cannon.  Independent of capships.  So what on earth would be the point of taking it and bolting it onto a capship? Clearly, the relative cost, risk, etc of such a weapon would be considered in creating it - which can only imply it's considered cost effective even given the risk of losing it.  If it was going to be prohibitively expensive to lose an RBC, they wouldn't exist.

Simple - to save it! It's not mobile. It's fixed!
If the blockade fails and you have to flee, the Mljonirs wil lstay and get destroyed...And they can easily get destroyed with no protection.

Simply bolting them to a old capship is actually quite plausible. Insted of sending that old Orion to a scrapyard, you just glue 4-5 Mjlonirs to it on preselected spots to effectivly double it's broadside firepower. The Orion can stand guard of the node, and can turn to face the enemy ship should it come out in a different vector (I havn't seen the Mljonirs turn by themselves).

We know the GTVA uses node blockade tactics that are somewhat vulnerable to a meson warhead (I say somewhat, since the meson blast radius is 3km, and the ships are usually just in beam range).

Second, in all the missinos I played warship allways exited nodes facing the same way. Allways.

Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline aldo_14

  • Gunnery Control
  • 213
Re: Cap-ship coversions!?
Simple - to save it! It's not mobile. It's fixed!
If the blockade fails and you have to flee, the Mljonirs wil lstay and get destroyed...And they can easily get destroyed with no protection.

That's the whole point.  You lose a bunch of Mjolnirs - so what?  It's a piece of machinery.  It's not, for example, a huge capital ship with thousands of crew.  Do you worry about the cost of losing a Watchdog sentry gun?  Same principle.  Hell, odds on that the principle of developing such a thing would be to save money and resources by not deploying bloody great capships and crew into a combat zone when the enemy you expect (Shivans) have a clear numerical advantage and ability to win any war of attrition.  The whole point of an RBC is that you don't worry about losing it, because you can always manufacture more.

Simply bolting them to a old capship is actually quite plausible. Insted of sending that old Orion to a scrapyard, you just glue 4-5 Mjlonirs to it on preselected spots to effectivly double it's broadside firepower. The Orion can stand guard of the node, and can turn to face the enemy ship should it come out in a different vector (I havn't seen the Mljonirs turn by themselves).

Yeah, because Orions can turn on a pin........odds on if it were caught out, it'd be stripped and struck down before it could re-manouver.  And even when it's moving, the enemy can move, too!  This thing needs to be able to cripple the enemy before they can hit it or, more likely, just jump out.  Any time delay, and the blockade is ****ed; it's now defending the node and trying to cover its ass from the ship/s that escaped.

Not to mention that old Orion needs rather a lot of people to crew it.  And that you can't just 'glue' Mjolnirs on; I'd wager you'd need a substantial amount of superstructure to reinforce it, prevent heat buildup, etc.  And that those Mjolnirs would be pretty much almost as vulnerable as the standalone RBCs, except now they'd have 10,000 people sitting behind them.  We can't just magic up these people - or the Orion - out of nowhere, after all (and would they be scrapping an Orion without a superior replacement, unless it was due to crew shortages?  I doubt it myself.)

How many people remember a Mjolnir is 93 by 108 by 91m in size?  That makes it larger than many freighters (the Poseidon, for example, is about half that size).  About, I'd estimate, 40-50% the volume of an Aeolus.  That's not a small thing to affix to a ships hull.

And lets not forget; these ships need a lot of people.  10,000 for an operational Orion (and anything less than a fully operation Orion - with - shiny - extra - beams is a liability once it's exposed away from a blockade).  That's 10,000 people you'll need to find, for an old mothballed ship.

We know the GTVA uses node blockade tactics that are somewhat vulnerable to a meson warhead (I say somewhat, since the meson blast radius is 3km, and the ships are usually just in beam range).

Technically, they don't.  All the blockades I can think of offhand had capships at standoff range, and the players' fighter / bomber wing is deployed from outside of the combat zone.

Second, in all the missinos I played warship allways exited nodes facing the same way. Allways.

And this means what, exactly?  That the mission designers laid out the missions on a more or less flat plane with a logical left-right type progression? 

We simply don't have an answer for this issue.

 

Offline Nuclear1

  • 211
Re: Cap-ship coversions!?
And this means what, exactly?  That the mission designers laid out the missions on a more or less flat plane with a logical left-right type progression?

Gameplay balancing, perhaps? What's easier: bombing an Orion that's coming out of a node at 200+ meters/second in your direction, allowing you to close the distance much quicker, or bombing an Orion that's headed away from you at 200+ meters/second in the opposite direction?

Quote
That's 10,000 people you'll need to find, for an old mothballed ship.

Well, to be a total nitpick, I would guess that it would not necessarily have to be 10,000 exact for an Orion whose primary purpose is to sit around with some beam cannons attached. A good number of that 10,000 is probably pilots, squadron leaders, mechanics, and other hangar crew that would be otherwise unnecessary if the ship was used primarily as a mobile gun platform.

It's still an implausible idea, however, for the reasons aldo stated.
Spoon - I stand in awe by your flawless fredding. Truely, never before have I witnessed such magnificant display of beamz.
Axem -  I don't know what I'll do with my life now. Maybe I'll become a Nun, or take up Macrame. But where ever I go... I will remember you!
Axem - Sorry to post again when I said I was leaving for good, but something was nagging me. I don't want to say it in a way that shames the campaign but I think we can all agree it is actually.. incomplete. It is missing... Voice Acting.
Quanto - I for one would love to lend my beautiful singing voice into this wholesome project.
Nuclear1 - I want a duet.
AndrewofDoom - Make it a trio!

 

Offline aldo_14

  • Gunnery Control
  • 213
Re: Cap-ship coversions!?
Quote
That's 10,000 people you'll need to find, for an old mothballed ship.

Well, to be a total nitpick, I would guess that it would not necessarily have to be 10,000 exact for an Orion whose primary purpose is to sit around with some beam cannons attached. A good number of that 10,000 is probably pilots, squadron leaders, mechanics, and other hangar crew that would be otherwise unnecessary if the ship was used primarily as a mobile gun platform.

It's still an implausible idea, however, for the reasons aldo stated.

Mmm.  Bear in mind what I said elsewhere in that post; away from the blockade, that Orion is a massive liability unless it can fully defend itself.  If the whole point of strapping cannons onto a destroyer is to protect the cannons if the blockade is abandoned, it's not very useful to make those cannons effectively defenseless away from the blockade anyways.  If you strip the fighter squadrons, for example, then the Orion is hugely vulnerable to bomber attack.  If you strip down on general crew or maintenance numbers, then the ability for that destroyer to operate 24 hour watches would presumably also be impinged.  Either way you're looking at thousands, but I would guess that the 10,000 is around the minimum required for a combat-operational and deployed Orion, and as soon as it leaves the blockade, the uber-bearzor-rion will need to be operational or it'll either suck up resources for its defense, or face destruction in open space.