Author Topic: Windows Vista  (Read 21802 times)

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Offline Kosh

  • A year behind what's funny
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Quote
Memory management in Vista is vastly improved and quite similar to unix/linux/bsd/osx systems

In otherwords they "borrowed" some code from FreeBSD. :p
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

Brain I/O error
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Offline Nix

  • 28
  • In the morning!
Oh give me a break.  There you go making up ****.  Just because something's been out for a while already, and M$ does the same thing, doesn't mean they borrowed ANYTHING from anyone.  I'm sick and tired of the M$ bashing before we've all had a decent chance to see what Vista can REALLY do.  Hopefully, Vista will be the wake-up call to every other OS producer in the world.  I REALLY hope it will shut those damn marketers and advertisers over at Apple up.  All the stupid "I'm a Mac, and I'm a PC" commercials are not funny at all.  The PC guy would correctly represent Windows 3.1, or even DOS, maybe a little bit of 95/98, but not XP.   

whatever.  venomous mood tonight. 

 

Offline Fury

  • The Curmudgeon
  • 213
You're right Nix, bashing MS for everything they do is getting old and tiresome. Personally I'm giving them the equal chance of getting things right as every other company. I deserve final judgement of their products when I review them personally. It is annoying when people take rumors or second hand opinions as facts when they might not be true, a good example of such inaccurate rumors is the bad OpenGL support which was already proven to be incorrect earlier in this thread.

 

Offline Kosh

  • A year behind what's funny
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Quote
Oh give me a break.  There you go making up ****.  Just because something's been out for a while already, and M$ does the same thing, doesn't mean they borrowed ANYTHING from anyone.

So you are saying that MS never has borrowed anything from anyone before?


I admit I was wrong before, but MS does have a history of borrowing things......
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

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Offline Fury

  • The Curmudgeon
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Oh come on, there's not a single OS out there which has not borrowed anything from any other OS. So who cares if they have borrowed some code or not?

  

Offline aldo_14

  • Gunnery Control
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Oh come on, there's not a single OS out there which has not borrowed anything from any other OS. So who cares if they have borrowed some code or not?

It would be quite interesting if they had, given that one of MS' main strategies for attacking OS in general is the vague insuation it might contain copyrighted/otherrighted code covered by other peoples' patents.

 

Offline Fury

  • The Curmudgeon
  • 213
I don't remember hearing of any such "attacks" from MS in the recent history. But I remember the SCO case very well, the whole case was laughable.

 

Offline aldo_14

  • Gunnery Control
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I don't remember hearing of any such "attacks" from MS in the recent history. But I remember the SCO case very well, the whole case was laughable.

For a while, it was their entire anti-Linux strategy.  Last year, I think it was, they were having 'roadshows' which were basically long pro-Ms/anti-OpSc PR pieces.  Not SCO-type suing, but basically saying to companies using open source programs left them open to attack on patent, licensing, etc areas.

 

Offline Kosh

  • A year behind what's funny
  • 210
Then they tried going after Unix on the server end........with a website that used FreeBSD instead of windows
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

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Offline Turnsky

  • FOXFIRE Artisté
  • 211
  • huh?.. Who?.. hey you kids, git off me lawn!
as long as it works, and does what it's supposed to, i don't care if it's unix distro #44567, MacOSXIIIIIIII or Windows Balcony.

really, all this OS vs OS bullcrap is pointless to the nth degree.

so who doesn't take features or coding present in another product, that's how corporations work, Sony is more blatant about it than anybody else, but it's general one-upmanship that keeps the bloodsoaked wheels of capitalism turning.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2006, 07:22:36 am by Turnsky »
   //Warning\\
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in case of emergency, administer caffeine to the artist,
he will become docile after that,
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Offline Turambar

  • Determined to inflict his entire social circle on us
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  • You can't spell Manslaughter without laughter
i'm just like to hate DRM and trusted computing

they are the real bad guys
10:55:48   TurambarBlade: i've been selecting my generals based on how much i like their hats
10:55:55   HerraTohtori: me too!
10:56:01   HerraTohtori: :D

 
All Software Sucks.
'And anyway, I agree - no sig images means more post, less pictures. It's annoying to sit through 40 different sigs telling about how cool, deadly, or assassin like a person is.' --Unknown Target

"You know what they say about the simplest solution."
"Bill Gates avoids it at every possible opportunity?"
-- Nuke and Colonol Drekker

 

Offline jr2

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All Software Sucks.
...That would include SCP!
BURN HIM!!

 
Quote
Memory management in Vista is vastly improved and quite similar to unix/linux/bsd/osx systems

In otherwords they "borrowed" some code from FreeBSD. :p


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Offline Nuke

  • Ka-Boom!
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All Software Sucks.
...That would include SCP!
BURN HIM!!
heh, software does suck, but burn you for dare calling freespace software, it is much much more, it is self aware, and it will hate you if you keep calling it dirty names like software, :D
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

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Offline Ulala

  • 29
  • Groooove Evening, viewers!
You're right Nix, bashing MS for everything they do is getting old and tiresome. Personally I'm giving them the equal chance of getting things right as every other company. I deserve final judgement of their products when I review them personally. It is annoying when people take rumors or second hand opinions as facts when they might not be true, a good example of such inaccurate rumors is the bad OpenGL support which was already proven to be incorrect earlier in this thread.

I still wish a newer operating system would be able to play my older games.  :( Oh well, that's what the DOSbox is for!  :nod: Crusader, here I come..
I am a revolutionary.

 

Offline Cyker

  • 28
At the moment, program compatibility is iffy - If it was coded during Windows XP's life, it will probably work okay; Anything before that will probably have 'issues', depending on complexity. (Blame this on Microsoft constantly 'tweaking' old Windows API calls instead of making new calls)

For good games performance, it looks like you will NEED 2GB of RAM.

Memory Management does not seem any better - On systems with 512MB, Vista thrashes a lot more than XP still. At 1GB, both touch the HD a lot less; I'd recommend 1GB as the absolute bare minimum RAM if you want to use Vista and run more than one app at a time.

Aero is a massive resource hog - It uses up massive amounts of system and videocard processor time and RAM. You don't want to have lots of Windows open with Aero (I routinely browse with 50-60 Opera windows open; You can't do this in Win98 because it runs out of resources/handles. You can do this in Linux, 2k, XP and Vista. You can't do this in Vista Aero. Curiously it seems to make Vista run out of resource handles in a similar Win98 does?!?!?!  :eek:)

You will need a 512MB Graphics card. A 1GB one would be better, when they come into existance.
256MB will be slow but usable.
128MB will be painful.

Disabling Aero speeds things up considerably - It does not disable hardware acceleration, just 3D acceleration. 2D window acceleration functions as it did before. You do loose a lot of the cool-guy window effects obviously.

One cool thing about Aero is that you can play (multiple) accelerated videos and they'll show through any transparency properly instead of being a big purple/green/blue/black rectangle.

Disk Cache is good - Linux like. Unused RAM is turned into disk-cache, apparently similar to how Linux does it.
Unfortunately, it seems to be reluctant to actually let go of the cache once it is made; There seems to be some minimum cache it will try to maintain that varies by some as-yet unknown factors (System load maybe?)

We think this is why we have problems with some high-end games - With FEAR and 1GB it seems to try to cache the large texture swaps that go on, but then runs out of main RAM for the actual game and ends up hitting the swap-file, resulting in nasty slowdowns during 'high-action' scenes.

2GBs of RAM seems to solve this - We can run everything at max without negligible difference between Vista and XP.


Disclaimer: Most of this is hypothisis based on observations; At the moment Vista is looking to be on par as an OS update, but with a metric arse-ton of eyecandy.
Purists like me will hate the new interface (I don't mean Aero effects etc, I mean the UI) - It tries to help, like XPs, and gets in the way, like XP's. Classic Control Panel forevaaar!


 

Offline IceFire

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Quote
Oh give me a break.  There you go making up ****.  Just because something's been out for a while already, and M$ does the same thing, doesn't mean they borrowed ANYTHING from anyone.

So you are saying that MS never has borrowed anything from anyone before?


I admit I was wrong before, but MS does have a history of borrowing things......
Not to be off topic but the great classical/baroke composers that everyone knows and loves (Mozart, Beethoven, etc.) copied/borrowed/stole music to create their masterpeices.  It wasn't a conspiracy...it just was how it was done.  Its the composition overall that matters.  It's true that Microsoft isn't very good at being innovative...what they do is take a look at what the competition is doing and try and replicate it/do better. 

Sometimes they do worse...sometimes they do some good things but you shouldn't blatantly go off down the trail because Microsoft is using the same technique as someone else for their security.  Its about damn time that they started getting smarter about programming the OS...people have been saying that for years and then they turn around and jump on them for doing it.  Its not just you...there's alot of that sort of double standard all over the place and while I'm loathe to defend anything that Microsoft does I prefer to judge on as even a footing as possible.

Vista looks and sounds smart from many perspectives...its the composition of how they weave all this together will matter on how well they do and how quickly I jump on the new OS.
- IceFire
BlackWater Ops, Cold Element
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Offline Flipside

  • əp!sd!l£
  • 212
The funny thing with "turning off bells and whistles" is that it might result in worse performance in Vista. For example, turning off Aero also disables hardware accelerated user interface, resulting that user interface is drawn by the CPU instead of GPU/VPU.... Snipped for space

I don't use optimising programs as such, I just make sure that I know what everything running on my computer at that moment does. I only ever shut down Programs that are running under the User I am on, System programs get controlled from the boot up menu (damn you MSN Messenger and your spyware like addiction to adding yourself to the boot-up menu :(). I agree that sometimes shutting down explorer can worsen performance, things that access the Hard Drives a lot perform better with it on, but most games are optimised to load everything into memory that they can, so for games playing, it's often better to have the extra memory available. A rendering program, however, uses the Drive by default, so it's better to keep explorer on ;)

Edit : I'm actually moderately interested in Vista, I'm going to wait for the Kinks to get Ironed out and see how it performs before I make a decision, but if MS really have optimised out all the junk, Vista may be a pleasant surprise.

 

Offline Fury

  • The Curmudgeon
  • 213
Cyker, what I've read majority of Beta 2 users tend to agree with your points. I hope the RTM version of Vista will be much smoother. Part of the performance problems are shoddy drivers which still need work, especially video card drivers. But the drivers will improve over time. At least officially MS does not want to release unfinished product and if necessary, will push release date later. I hope that remains true unofficially and they will indeed do that if Vista is not RTM quality by October.