Author Topic: Anticap cruisers -- why not?  (Read 6134 times)

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Offline TheVirtu

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Anticap cruisers -- why not?
I can imagine seeing a BFGreen Platform, about the size of an Aeolus, with no engines. It will have 2 crew controlling it remotely, 1 BFGreen and it'll have a weak flak weapon to somewhat defend it.

It'll probably have light armor and have special bracing to keep the platform from falling in on itself from the pressure of the weapon firing.

Perhaps calling it a GTVB(Galactic Terran Vasudan Beam)Titan.

[This message has been edited by TheVirtu (edited 12-23-2001).]
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Offline joek

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Anticap cruisers -- why not?
What about a Triton freighter pushing around a Mjolnir.  
That'd be cool.  

Joe.

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[This message has been edited by joek (edited 12-23-2001).]
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Offline TheVirtu

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Anticap cruisers -- why not?
Last time I checked, those things dont dock.
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Offline joek

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Anticap cruisers -- why not?
Yeah... it would take a modeler to fix that, but the idea is cool. Both things already have their own power supplies, so linking them together would give you something like an anticap cruiser.

Heck... if that's all it takes, just making a cruiser the size of those two put together, and claiming that it has two reactors (one for weapons and one for engines) would make an anticap cruiser.

Joe.

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Offline TheVirtu

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Anticap cruisers -- why not?
*scratches head* Colossus is a superdestroyer Anticap  

I just got done playing Millennium campaign and I would like to have a head bashing so I dont remember it.

Oh the spelling! The Colossus barely used those nice cannons either! It sat there just flying into space.
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Offline an0n

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Anticap cruisers -- why not?
Big ships kill big ships. Small ships kill small ships. Trying to change this balance is often pointless. Cruisers were made as a means of eliminating fighters and try to change the balance, for doing this they are forever condemned to get their asses whooped by the bigger ships.

It is feasible to give larger ships a small capacity for taking on smaller ships (ie destroyers anti-fighter weapons, but they ain't that effective). If you make a ship that can hold its own against a destroyer and wipe out wave after wave of fighters then it would be too hard to destroy. Basically it would be a destroyer with anti-fighter beams instead of fighters. POintless.

Anyway isn't the Iceni kinda an all purpose ship?
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Offline TheVirtu

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Anticap cruisers -- why not?
Yea, it has Destroyer-class beams on it, its fast, and can defend from fighters.
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Offline Alikchi

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Anticap cruisers -- why not?
I don't think it can defend from fighters that well, it has Terran Huge Turrets.
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Offline Mad Bomber

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Anticap cruisers -- why not?
 
Quote
Originally posted by Alikchi:
Idea..Command hollows out the Fenris, takes some parts and engines for use on the GTC Peleus (good god, I'm pimping someone else's campaign) and other ships, and puts a BGreen in there.

Thaaaats right  

And the Peleus has an MGreen, not a BGreen. It's an antifighter cruiser anyway. Basically it's an Aeolus-like ship made out of Fenris parts, thus making it much cheaper than the Aeolus but fulfilling a similar role. (there weren't many Aeoluses left anyways...)

Anticap cruisers wouldn't necessarily have to have poor antifighter defense to be balanced. Take the Lilith for example. It has clusterbombs, an SAAA, and Megafunk turrets. Not the best against fighters but the clusterbombs do kill AI rather nicely.

 
Quote
Originally posted by an0n:
Big ships kill big ships. Small ships kill small ships.
Not necessarily. The Lilith has an LRed and it can incinerate a corvette or frigate, or even a destroyer (with enough patience).

Besides, what about bombers? Small kills big there too!  
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Starwing

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Anticap cruisers -- why not?
 
Quote
Big ships kill big ships. Small ships kill small ships.

I wouldn't say so too... Often small ships are built to chase bigger ones. They wouldn't last long in a direct battle but can approach their target quickly and drop some shots at it. Smaller ships are a threat to bigger ones. That's why the big ships surround themselves with other smaller ships to keep them off.

 

Offline Arnav

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Anticap cruisers -- why not?
 
Quote
Originally posted by Starwing:
That's why the big ships surround themselves with other smaller ships to keep them off.

That's the whole point (and fun!) of having a FLEET!  


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Offline Stryke 9

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Anticap cruisers -- why not?
I see anticap cruisers as essentailly one big gun- not too powerful on their own, but put half a dozen together and pit them against anything. You really can't just beef up the weapons on a cruiser, they're smaller and weaker for a reason, and it ruins the balance of a game. Try it sometime- something like a Mjolnir with engines and thicker armor- they're great if they're none too fast as well, since they spend most of their attention on the gun, just specialty ships built for heavy fleet coverage... you could also have a midrange vessel, basically a small corvette (That's what corvettes are, Shrike) with some light anticap and some relatively vicious antifighter weaponry...

How 'bout something like a remote-controlled Argo loaded down with high explosives- basically a really, really big missile that acts as a capship in the game? You can send it into a swarm of fighters, and when they blow it up (it would have to be rather weak, what with the unstable explosives), it lets out a shockwave killing much of the enemy fleet. Wanna nail a heavy capship? Just get it close enough and ram it into the thing! This seems to be the way the GTVA is heading anyway after FS2, with all the kamikaze Orions, etc.

 

Offline Arnav

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Anticap cruisers -- why not?
But when the argo is launched it would preumably come out of a capship's cargo bay and if it's blown up near there, oops.



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Offline Stryke 9

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Anticap cruisers -- why not?
But it doesn't come out of a capship cargo bay! Well, maybe it comes attached to a special unarmed command ship, in packs of, say, four a ship. And preferably something not an Argo, but sorta the same long simple shape, and slightly smaller. The idea is that you have to protect it until the moment you want it to die- and then you might actually have to kill it yourself in some missions.

 

Offline Mad Bomber

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Anticap cruisers -- why not?
Erm... the Lilith is an anticap cruiser and it's not considered unbalanced.

Kamikaze capships... it's a very expensive tactic. The GTVA only did that with the Bastion and Nereid because that was their only option, and because those destroyers had been decommissioned anyway.

Anticap cruisers wouldn't be defenseless against fighters or whatever, either. What would be the point in making a huge reactor and a huge weapon, if it couldn't defend itself?

I'm not saying one of these heavy anticap cruisers would be as good against fighters as an Aeolus or a Peleus , but it could at least defend itself from bomber attacks for a bit.
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Offline vadar_1

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Anticap cruisers -- why not?
I was just thinking, how much power do you think an AAA beam takes? if you were to shunt all the power that were used on the total of all those beams (say on a aeolus), and shunt it to one powerful beam (think homeworld ion cannon frig), then you have a fast, manuverable heavy beam cannon platform. And by using proper AI tactics, it could avoid getting hit by more powerful beams on larger ships, by manuvering to a blind spot on the craft, and when the larger ship moves, the smaller covette can move with it, unlike say a destroyer that would suddenly face the wraith of the larger ships forward beam array
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Offline Zeronet

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Anticap cruisers -- why not?
 
Quote
Originally posted by Alikchi:
  Well, it's supposed to be able to destroy cruisers easily and damage corvettes, but destroyers are a bit tougher, and their beam weapons have enough range to take them out. Artillery are slow and have almost no armor, so a fighter squad could take one out.

I haven't worked out all the specifics; I, however, plan to make a 5-second delay cannon to be fit on a bomber I am making.  

Ace - You could follow Aldo and call it a War Cruiser..

[This message has been edited by Alikchi (edited 12-22-2001).]

Why dont you go the proper thing and call it a Frigate, which is actually is. Packs more than the Cruiser but just doesnt pack Corvette power.
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Offline Stryke 9

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Anticap cruisers -- why not?
 
Quote
Originally posted by Mad Bomber:
Anticap cruisers wouldn't be defenseless against fighters or whatever, either. What would be the point in making a huge reactor and a huge weapon, if it couldn't defend itself?

I'm not saying one of these heavy anticap cruisers would be as good against fighters as an Aeolus or a Peleus  , but it could at least defend itself from bomber attacks for a bit.

Why should it? Ever heard of an artillery gun? For ****  against mobile infantry, airstrikes, etc., but it can knock a hell of a hole in armored units or installations. Or an antiaircraft installation? Can't take on a tank column! Why do these exist at all, if they aren't the Swiss Army knife of war? because they're very good at what they do! Artillery pieces can be defended by troops. So you give an anticap cruiser a fighter escort. You throw it in with an antifighter cruiser or two. You use it to augment a destroyer's weaponry! Would you pit one of FreeSpace's standard cruisers against a Ravanna? Then why fret when an anticap cruiser can't deal with an Ursa? Not saying that a lone anticap SHOULD be able to kill a Ravanna, but a group of two or three would have a fighting chance, something a comparable fleet of Aeoluses or Leviathans doesn't have- though they could pulverize a wing of fighters.


 

Offline Mad Bomber

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Anticap cruisers -- why not?
You're missing the point tho. Anticap cruisers are not just mobile artillery. Not in the sense I'm talking about. I'm talking about a GTVA equivalent of the Rakshasa or the Lilith.

The GTVA wouldn't be dumb enough to give such a powerful cruiser a poor antifighter defense. Not if they've learned anything since Capella. Of course, this is Command we're talking about, but still...

 
Quote
Originally posted by Zeronet:Why dont you do the proper thing and call it a Frigate, which it actually is.
Because the Iceni was a Frigate, and that was larger and more powerful than a Corvette. I call it a Heavy Cruiser but keep the GTC/GVC designation.

Of course, that's only my designation convention.

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Offline Stryke 9

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Anticap cruisers -- why not?
So... basically all you want is a cruiser-sized ship that can knock down a destroyer. I will not comment on your horrible taste in ship types. I will simply ignore that and focus on those who want realistic designs that leave the game chllenging. If you want to just blow up a lot of really big things with the GTC Ultrasupermonstrokiller, size 42 meters, then let me know when you are designing a campaign so I can save that much more space on my poor, cramped HD. And if you say I'm exaggerating what you said, which you will, then I'll tell you the Terran fleet is SUPPOSED to be weaker than the Shivan one, mock you a little, and suggest you open the tables and make some Shivan ships playable and set Terran IFF defaults to hostile.

"If the GTVA has learned anything..." Er, what? Didn't the GTVA try out the toughest ship they could make, only to get it pulverized by one out of 100 Shivan ships? If they learned anything, they would have learned that you can't beat the Shivans with just bigger guns- they need better tricks. This is a good start.