Author Topic: Anticap cruisers -- why not?  (Read 6142 times)

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Offline Mad Bomber

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Anticap cruisers -- why not?
I've noticed that people in the FS community tend to look at cruisers just as mobile anti-fighter platforms, like the Aeolus, Leviathan, and Mentu.

But, people generally don't think of cruisers being much good against other capital ships (with the exception of the Lilith).

So my question is, why not make more anticap cruisers? They would be cheaper to pump out than a corvette, and easier to replace. Not to mention, 2 cruisers can be in more places at once than 1 corvette.  

And they wouldn't necessarily perform poorly against fighters. They just wouldn't perform quite as well as a ship devoted to such a role. Which means that an anticap cruiser and an antifighter cruiser would make a great team.

Anyone agree/disagree? Because I've only seen 3 anticap cruisers (Tyr, Dainishi, Tuket) and I figured that the GTVA could learn a lesson or two from the Shivans in that respect.
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Offline CODEDOG ND

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Anticap cruisers -- why not?
Well, I'm making the Argoso into POF as we speak with the help of Untouchable.  Pretty had to do. 2 Terran huge, 2 Flak guns, and 6 SGreens.  Not very well defended against fighters but that is not what is was built for now was it.  
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Offline Zeronet

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Anticap cruisers -- why not?
Well Venom2506 has his Gaia, its a Capital ship alright, not a Cruiser but its really quick. The Size of a Cruiser means its not always a ideal platform against capships due to its reactor size and most cruisers lack hangers   .
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Offline joek

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Anticap cruisers -- why not?
Yeah... it deals with science fact inside of sci-fi. Do you put a BFGreen on a sentry gun? How would you explain a sentry gun having that much power output? Doesn't matter... it's sci-fi? Yeah, but sci-fi can be more believable when you stick to known facts.

So, for anti-cap cruisers it's once again a balance of forces. But big guns on it, and you can only put a few guns on it. How big of guns do you want... then how big of a reactor do they need... then how big of a ship have you got.

I say I'd like to see some good anti-cap cruisers that have a good balance. Like a cruiser that's basically a flying gun which needs two anti-fighter cruisers to protect it. Then you could have this trio of small ships flying around blowing up the big guys.  

Joe.

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Offline Nico

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Anticap cruisers -- why not?
 
Quote
Originally posted by Zeronet:
Well Venom2506 has his Gaia, its a Capital ship alright, not a Cruiser but its really quick. The Size of a Cruiser means its not always a ideal platform against capships due to its reactor size and most cruisers lack hangers   .


The Dainishi cruiser is exactly what this thread is about, check my forum more often  
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Offline Zeronet

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Anticap cruisers -- why not?
I do, but you complain about the fact i seem to metion hangers if every post i make and it usually manage to stay on topic.
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Offline Shrike

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Anticap cruisers -- why not?
The question is, what good are corvettes then?

I look on it as Cruisers are screening units with a secondary antiship role, Corvettes add on extra protection and lotsa anticap weapons, Frigates are oversized 'vettes with minor small craft capacity and Destroyers have scads of fighters and big guns.
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Offline joek

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Anticap cruisers -- why not?
 
Quote
Originally posted by Shrike:
The question is, what good are corvettes then?

I look on it as Cruisers are screening units with a secondary antiship role, Corvettes add on extra protection and lotsa anticap weapons, Frigates are oversized 'vettes with minor small craft capacity and Destroyers have scads of fighters and big guns.

Good point. But I think that, at least with  's ships... all the ship classes have the ability (whether small or great) to defend themselves against fighters. I guess if we had an unlimited ships.tbl, we'd be creating ships fulfilling every spectrum of each class (anti-fighter cruisers to anti-cap cruisers, and so on in each class).

Although... why would the GTVA make a cruiser (or any ship) with all it's power in one field (like anti-cap firepower) when it might get stranded with no cover against fighters?

Joe.


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Offline Zeronet

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Anticap cruisers -- why not?
I think Cruisers should be anti-fighter platforms, Corvette's have Capital ships covered. Fighers and Bombers are dangerous and thus should be planned for, Cruisers handle this role well.

EDIT: Just some information reworking.

[This message has been edited by Zeronet (edited 12-22-2001).]
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Offline Shrike

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Anticap cruisers -- why not?
 
Quote
Originally posted by joek:
Good point. But I think that, at least with   's ships... all the ship classes have the ability (whether small or great) to defend themselves against fighters. I guess if we had an unlimited ships.tbl, we'd be creating ships fulfilling every spectrum of each class (anti-fighter cruisers to anti-cap cruisers, and so on in each class).

All modern miltary ships have some AA capability, if nothing more than a phalanx CIWS or two.  That's the equivalent of an Orion with it's couple of AAA beams and terran turrets.  But something like an Aeolus is designed to slaughter fighters by the bucketload, and has a good turret density and efficient AAA weaponry as well.
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Offline TheVirtu

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Anticap cruisers -- why not?
For a sentry gun to use a BFGreen, it'd have to be a size of at least a Fenris or Leviathan. It needs the space for a reactor strong enough to power a BFGreen, but even then it could damage itself and have a loading time by doing that.

Think about Gundam Wing with Fortress Barge and that other one. They had to recharge after every shot, and on the other one, those scientists made it so the main weapon broke down every time it fired.
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Offline Alikchi

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Anticap cruisers -- why not?
Idea..Command hollows out the Fenris, takes some parts and engines for use on the GTC Peleus (good god, I'm pimping someone else's campaign) and other ships, and puts a BGreen in there. Not as effective as a Mjolnir, but there are plenty of the chassis remaining.
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Offline TheVirtu

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Anticap cruisers -- why not?
The cannon would have to be mounted on the side with the sheer size that a BFGreen is.

With a engine and a beam like that, you would have to power down the engines to fire the weapon, and power down the beams to power the engine.

I'd think the thing would break down if you tried firing while your moving. Or at least rattle the ship like hell.
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Offline Alikchi

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Anticap cruisers -- why not?
Yeah, I mean scrapping the engines completely - just leave them hanging around permanent installations o rin an orbital defence network or something.

Also, with a BGreen or something less powerful than a Mjolnir#Home at least -
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Offline TheVirtu

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Anticap cruisers -- why not?
You could have it like a mobile weapon that docks with a transport or warship that moves it around.

Something like that would be very susceptable to bombers and fighters because of its main weapon, you couldnt put much more on it unless you want to blow the reactor.
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Offline Alikchi

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Anticap cruisers -- why not?
I have been toying with the idea of artillery - slow moving ships with one heavy cannon.

Stats:

French 75 - a small, quick firing artillery, about the size of a cruiser. Fires every 6 seconds or so. (moves at a speed of 15ms)

Napoleon - big huge heavy gun fires every 10-12 seconds. Can take a Leviathan down to 50% integrity in one hit. (10ms)
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Offline TheVirtu

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Anticap cruisers -- why not?
A loading time of about 15-20 seconds would be better for a weapon that drops a Leviathan to 50% Hull.

Unless its a weapon designed to take down Destroyers and Super Destroyers.
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Offline Ace

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Anticap cruisers -- why not?
I agree with Shrike that the primary role of a cruiser is to be an anti-fighter platform with light capital ship offense capacity. (i.e. park two of these with an Orion or Hecate and you got yourself covered)

The Tyr though is meant to be a quickstrike prototype for the GTVI. Able to defend itself with long range flak and a GTW-70 series laser turret per firing arc. (i.e. flail/morning star tech, heavy refire and kientic damage to shoot down bombs and missiles as well as but time for the flak)

It's fast and broadsides ships as well as has an extremely powerful set of forward slashing beams in combination with the spine-mounted cannon.

It's larger then a cruiser, while smaller then a 'vette. So wether or not it's really a cruiser is debatable. The actual firepower is weaker then a Deimos due to limited firing arcs on it's main beams.

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Offline Alikchi

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Anticap cruisers -- why not?
   
Quote
Originally posted by TheVirtu:

Unless its a weapon designed to take down Destroyers and Super Destroyers.

Well, it's supposed to be able to destroy cruisers easily and damage corvettes, but destroyers are a bit tougher, and their beam weapons have enough range to take them out. Artillery are slow and have almost no armor, so a fighter squad could take one out.

I haven't worked out all the specifics; I, however, plan to make a 5-second delay cannon to be fit on a bomber I am making.  

Ace - You could follow Aldo and call it a War Cruiser..

[This message has been edited by Alikchi (edited 12-22-2001).]
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Offline Shrike

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Anticap cruisers -- why not?
 
Quote
Originally posted by Ace:
It's larger then a cruiser, while smaller then a 'vette. So wether or not it's really a cruiser is debatable. The actual firepower is weaker then a Deimos due to limited firing arcs on it's main beams.

Uh, the term 'heavy cruiser' comes to mind.  And since I designed the damn thing....  
WE ARE HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS. YOU WILL LOWER YOUR FIREWALLS AND SURRENDER YOUR KEYBOARDS. WE WILL ADD YOUR INTELLECTUAL AND VERNACULAR DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN. YOUR FORUMS WILL ADAPT TO SERVICE US. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.