Author Topic: Hating Society = Angst?  (Read 2546 times)

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Offline Nuke

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Re: Hating Society = Angst?
i wouldnt take my statement to seriously really. scapegoats just keep people sane. im probibly the biggest psycho on this board (really, im not one of those trendy psychos) so i need every scrap of sanity i can scrape up. still it mayes me question, why is the first commandment of any religion something around the lines of "dont blasphem". religions really serve two purposes, a double edged sword, on one edge it guides and instructs with philisophical underdones, this is the edge that attracts followers, the good edge. the other edge, to maintain the power of the establishers of that religion, which attracts the power hungry and tyranical. there are always 2 sides to any human creation. mind you the roman empire still rules this earth.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2006, 05:58:17 pm by Nuke »
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

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Offline Ford Prefect

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Re: Hating Society = Angst?
Again with "equlibrium" this and "balance" that. There is no equilibrium. If you assert that humanity has violated an equilibrium, you assert intent. Intent implies consciousness, and to assign consciousness to our environment is to assert, huh huh, GOD. Natural law cannot be violated, that's what makes it natural law. Anything we can do is natural, or we wouldn't be able to do it. Only in fantasy worlds does nature have metaphysical "rules" that we can violate, but we just shouldn't. That's nothing but the plain and simple anthropomorphizing of nature, and that is what we call "religion". The real nature doesn't give a **** what happens to us one way or the other. This is why so-called "nihilism" always ends up pissing in its own face. People get into saying "Destroy! Destroy!" until it's anything but the acceptance of utter meaninglessness; it's just another cause to advocate, another cross to bear. It is, by definition, impossible to live according to meaninglessness; meaninglessness is something we devote our lives to pretending isn't there, and you can tell when someone has stopped pretending because they're not advocating anything systematic, they're just ****ed up or dead.
"Mais est-ce qu'il ne vient jamais à l'idée de ces gens-là que je peux être 'artificiel' par nature?"  --Maurice Ravel

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: Hating Society = Angst?
you see i consider what most would call unnatural manmade (tools, organizations, techonology, the ability to store information and such) things simply as an natural extesion to our species. in that i dont consider them unnatural at all. the rules of nature make us what we are, what we do is not by choice but simply the outcome of a natural chain reaction. the reaction is so complex that it isnt always obvious how the dice will fall. what you see as a choice is merely the beginnings of a reaction which is being carried out and will follow its course. this chain of reactions follows the rules of nature, and as you say theese rules cannot be broken and thus i agree. the momentum of theese reaction carries through untill what we call a choice is made. we really havent done anything because nature has done it for us. of course that doesnt stop people from taking credit for it. :D this is why human behavior tends to follow common patterns as well. equilibrium does not in any way indicate intent. lets say a couple humans and a small population of cows are stuck on an island. the island has enough grass for the cows to maintain there population but nothing for the humans. the humans decide to knock off a cow every week for food. the cows breed so that the cows repopulate at the same rate the humans are consuming them. now assume the 2 humans are male and female, they get board one day and start screwing. all the sudden theres another human to feed, and they now consume cows at 1 every 4 days. now the cows are reducing in numbers and if they continue killing one every 4 days they will run out of food and die, so they decrease their rations. this is the form of equilibrium or balence i mean. nature is a system governed by those unbreakable laws you mentioned, but a system is a flow of energys. sence l;ife forms run on energy they will seek it out. life for any species is easy when energy is plentifull, but as they consume it, it deminishes and as it does life gets harder and as that happens lifespans and birthrates reduce. this misfortune causes another part of the system to propagate and the cycle continues. nature self equilizes. nature and everything in it is nothing more than a system, a machine. what i call equilibriom is nothing more than an uncontrolled, shifting bias in the machine.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2006, 03:35:30 am by Nuke »
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

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Offline castor

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Re: Hating Society = Angst?
religions really serve two purposes, a double edged sword, on one edge it guides and instructs with philisophical underdones, this is the edge that attracts followers, the good edge. the other edge, to maintain the power of the establishers of that religion, which attracts the power hungry and tyranical. there are always 2 sides to any human creation.
I'm no specialist, but Isn't that the "quest" anyway? If there was only one side, it would render anyones actions indifferent, stagnant.

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: Hating Society = Angst?
everythings stagnant regaurdless of how many sides there are.
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

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Offline Ford Prefect

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Re: Hating Society = Angst?
But an ecosystem is not a system in the same sense that nature is a system. Nature consists of the physical laws that govern everything-- it sets the parameters for our existence, and we simply can't break them. An ecosystem, however, is no more significant than we are. The rules governing an ecoystem are conditions, not absolute parameters, and, while of course they're based on natural laws just as everything is, they themselves are not natural laws; they're general rules. And we can alter the cause/effect relationships that dictate these general rules. To apply my argument to your example, for instance: The humans would learn to breed the cows in captivity, increasing the cows' population to meet their own needs. Now, maybe, as the humans' agrictulture becomes more and more efficient, the human society will become unable to support its own weight and collapse, fulfilling your predictions and leaving the ecosystem to continue as it was. But there is also the chance that this won't occur. And that is because we always have the ability to exploit whatever can be altered, to stay one step ahead of our own destruction. Biology is not fate; it is a set of conditions that are often strongly adverse, but only appear to be written in stone because we're the only species we know of that has the capacity to resist them.
"Mais est-ce qu'il ne vient jamais à l'idée de ces gens-là que je peux être 'artificiel' par nature?"  --Maurice Ravel

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: Hating Society = Angst?
perhaps resist, but resistance is not a gaurantee for survival. it is very likely mankind will do something stupid to remove itself from existance, a darwin award for the whole species. and if it doesnt, then eventually the sun will explode and do it for us.
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

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Re: Hating Society = Angst?
Axioms:
1) The human race is stupid.
2) Individuals may or may not be stupid.
3) Over the full period of its existence, the stupidity of any closed system of people is equal to the average stupidity of the individuals within.

The entirety of the human race is the only closed system of people. We're a civilisation able to understand and control most of our environment, so most people would claim an inconsistency between 1) and 3). However, since we still exist, we aren't considering the full period of our existence...

For all the large rocks in space, the nasty diseases we have yet to discover, and the finite lifetime of our star, the human race is most likely to be destroyed by its own stupidity. This monumental display of idiocy will restore balance and fulfill axiom 3).

We don't need faceless natural or supernatural forces to bring about our apocalypse. We're more than stupid enough to do it ourselves.
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Offline Mefustae

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Re: Hating Society = Angst?
We don't need faceless natural or supernatural forces to bring about our apocalypse. We're more than stupid enough to do it ourselves.
Amen to that, brother.

 
Re: Hating Society = Angst?
This thread is giant swirling vortex of suck.

"Nuke the world!"
"Love the world!"
"Nuke the world!"
"Love the world!"
"..."
"..."

Let's compromise and agree that, while we'd all love nuking the world, we won't actually do it.
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Blind people with them..."

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FUKOOOOV!

 

Offline Ford Prefect

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Re: Hating Society = Angst?
Ehrm... have you actually read this discussion? Because if that's what you've gotten out of it, then my next question would be as to where you bought whatever it is you're smoking.
"Mais est-ce qu'il ne vient jamais à l'idée de ces gens-là que je peux être 'artificiel' par nature?"  --Maurice Ravel

 

Offline Flipside

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Re: Hating Society = Angst?
The problem is a question of control. When you were younger and more trusting, you didn't really have a problem with being told what was right and wrong, and what you could and couldn't do. That's one of a parent's roles in life, to raise their children to the best values that they can. Then along comes the teenager years and beyond, and all of a sudden you are part of 'society', which is a completely different animal from 'family'.

I suppose it's, at least in part, because of the old saying, 'It's easier for a wise man to fit in among fools than for a fool to fit-in amongst wise men.'

The fact of the matter is that, no matter what country you are in, a large majority of people don't want to face any more reality than possibly the odd episode of 'Cops'. Big Brother is the epitomy of sadistic television. Forget about your own societal standing for a while and watch some other people humiliate themselves for money.

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: Hating Society = Angst?
Axioms:
1) The human race is stupid.
2) Individuals may or may not be stupid.
3) Over the full period of its existence, the stupidity of any closed system of people is equal to the average stupidity of the individuals within.

The entirety of the human race is the only closed system of people. We're a civilisation able to understand and control most of our environment, so most people would claim an inconsistency between 1) and 3). However, since we still exist, we aren't considering the full period of our existence...

For all the large rocks in space, the nasty diseases we have yet to discover, and the finite lifetime of our star, the human race is most likely to be destroyed by its own stupidity. This monumental display of idiocy will restore balance and fulfill axiom 3).

We don't need faceless natural or supernatural forces to bring about our apocalypse. We're more than stupid enough to do it ourselves.

i agree, but in regaurds to axiom 3 it is important to note that any system is as good as its weakest component. so in a system of individuals (society), the most pathetic human you can think of is representitive of our true progress. and in regaurds to axiom # 2, all humans have their moment of stupidity, even einstein went through his nutcase phase.
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

Nuke's Scripting SVN

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: Hating Society = Angst?
By a odd coincidence, I too had an encounter with Big Brother. About 20 minutes ago I accidentally [and I must stress it was not intentional] to the lastest and poorest Big Brother series, and after about 16 seconds of pure, mindnumbing stupidity, I came to an epiphany. The human race is a stupid, destructive plague upon this planet, spreading like a virus, destroying anything it touches, including itself. This cannot be allowed to continue.

Big Brother has proven to me that the human race does not deserve to exist, and as such I vow to destroy it in its entirety.

I'll bring the nukes!
Hope you're good at bioengeenering since I just ran out of flesh-eating viruses...
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