[Flipside]

This sort of thing annoys me in the UK as well, everyone moans about Tony Blair and the Labour government and how oppressive they are, and yet use excuses such as 'Well, the Liberal Leader left because he was an alcoholic.'.

I mean, for Gods sake, the man was a Politician, and a member of the Armed Services, yes, he had a problem and it was right that he should leave, but we are talking about people who obviously think that neither John Prescott or Gordon Brown like to get seriously pissed. You just have to look at the blood vessels on their face to realise the only real difference is that the Liberal Leader got caught.

[aldo_14]

Now we have a Lib Dem leader who has underwent a different type of pickling.

Sigh.

I liked the Lib Dems, I really did; they seemed to have more or less agreeable policies and an actual interest in stuff like civil rights and democracy (guess that's why their 3rd place, then...).  And then we had the night of the long knives, and ITV seemingly braying at the possibility of 'taking down' Kennedy.

[Goober5000]

I'm not trying to scare anyone; I'm stating a prediction.  Trying to motivate the base into voting Republican is a poor solution because they're nearly as bad as the Democrats nowadays.  I'd rather a third-party be in power (even the Greens) then either of them.

So I presume that you absolutely won't be voting republican at the next election then?

I didn't in the last one. I voted for Badnarik.  I won't in the next one either, unless they nominate someone like Ron Paul.

Cause I'm sick and tired of hearing people say "The democrats are as bad as the republicans" and then going out and voting republican. If you think they're both as bad as each other why in hell would you vote for either of them?

Exactly so.  A lot of Republicans expressed serious reservations about Bush in the last election but voted for him anyway.  Doubtless the Democrats will do the same with Hillary in 2008.  Principles don't count for much unless you're willing to back them up.

[Kosh]

Still, I was out of line with that earlier comment, and I apologize to both Kaz and Kosh. It still doesn't change the fact that I can't stand expatriatism, but I'm sorry that it came out as a personal attack.

That's your problem, not ours. Some of us actually like living outside of the US for a while, and it was a super ***** convincing the student loan people of that.

Too many Americans do operate by simply surrendering themselves to parties and groups without taking the time to formulate their own opinions, and that really is the most tragic aspect of it all.

Yes it is. But like I said earlier, what can we do about it if they have their eyes closed and their fingers in their ears? Trying to make them see what is happeneing all around them is like talking to a brick wall.

You're right in one sense, but if everyone already hates Bush and the Neo-cons, the upcoming elections are likely going to result in Republicans losing seats in US and state congressional bodies. America has gone too far right, but hopefully a period with the left in power will restore some kind of middle ground.

I'm not certain how much of a difference having the democrats in power would make. The problem is that the ****ing lobbyists buy off both parties more or less equally. Neither party really care about its people anymore, they only care about getting more campaign contributions.

American has some very serious problems heading its way, but most of the people don't seem too interested in making any kind of attempts to solve them. This attitude is reflected in both parties.

[IceFire]

People have been making far too many Roman Empire comparisons in the last year or so for my comfort level.  Hopefully someone down there figures it out.  Gets things fixed up before its beyond repair.

[Kazan]

goober do us a favor and put the hillary talking point to rest  : most democrats who know her agenda don't like her, and those who like her can easily be educated on how much of a **** she is

[Janos]

It really is fascinating, but cosidering what RFK Jr. has said earlier this article needs some pretty serious source checking and background inspections.

Also, "what everyone knows" does not mean squat and has jack-all to do with what actually happened. Pure anecdotal evidence with little or no credibility whatsoever.

[Kosh]

I heard a rumor that MSNBC was going to run with the story on 3004 election stealing.