[Kosh]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/07/04/microsoft_ec_fines/

The vote is (unofficially, and off the record) in. Regulators from the European Union's 25 member countries have, according to reports, unanimously found Microsoft guilty of non-compliance with the commission's landmark 2004 anti-trust ruling.

The way is now clear for Microsoft to start paying a $2.51m a day fine backdated to December 15 for failing to meet the terms of the commission's ruling

Ouch, that's a big number.

[Colonol Dekker]

ROFL@Gates accountantcy firm,
Who I WORK FOR... aWWW ****..

Ernst & Young are not happy right now.....

[Roanoke]

what did the ruling say again ?

[Kamikaze]

The anti-trust ruling required MS to present some documentation of its APIs/protocols because they were found to be stifling competition illegally. They still haven't produced any.

[Ferret]

The anti-trust ruling required MS to present some documentation of its APIs/protocols because they were found to be stifling competition illegally. They still haven't produced any.

How far does it go though? I'ld expect it to include some sort of Windows's inner-workings, for things such as anti-spyware + virus checkers, but really, what will Microsoft be expected to give exactly?

[yubyub]

So what if the EU wants to fine MS?  If Microsoft stopped selling its product to Europe it'd hurt Microsoft, but it'd demolish Europe's economy.  They simply couldn't switch all the programs they need to Linux fast enough to save themselves.  So, the EU really can't force Microsoft, and American company to do much of anything.

They've got balls trying though.

[aldo_14]

The anti-trust ruling required MS to present some documentation of its APIs/protocols because they were found to be stifling competition illegally. They still haven't produced any.

How far does it go though? I'ld expect it to include some sort of Windows's inner-workings, for things such as anti-spyware + virus checkers, but really, what will Microsoft be expected to give exactly?

Offhand.... I think it's anything you'd need to be able to get a program interacting with the operating system, including things like communications protocols in particular.  i.e. exactly the stuff an OS is supposed to present to programmers.

[Flipside]

So what if the EU wants to fine MS?  If Microsoft stopped selling its product to Europe it'd hurt Microsoft, but it'd demolish Europe's economy.  They simply couldn't switch all the programs they need to Linux fast enough to save themselves.  So, the EU really can't force Microsoft, and American company to do much of anything.

They've got balls trying though.

I think you're vastly underestimating Microsofts income from the European Market there. Having to drop sales in Europe would vastly reduce the sales of Microsoft products, simply because the biggest market for Windows is those who don't have it yet, so Microsoft focus quite intently on areas of Europe that are starting to become more technologically accessible.

Removing the EU Market would more than half MS's income for the coming year. That would cause a Shareholder panic the likes the world has never seen. Quite frankly, EU's got them by the short and curlies, though I suspect an 'agreement' will be reached.

As far as the EU's economy is concerned, it would hit areas like the UK quite hard, but most of the EU is an agricultural society, it would hit individual countries, but most of Europe wouldn't be that affected by it, most heavy industry uses bespoke software.

Edit : Not to mention the Breach of Contract actions by most major UK Banks would leave Microsoft in even more trouble

[aldo_14]

The EU has a population of ~460-480 million as is (excluding other european countries who may join), about 49% of who have internet (i.e. potential customers with computers), and in general is a reasonably high standard of living (i.e. can afford computers).

That's a huge market.

And I have a feeling european governments are tending to switch more and more to OS alternatives - simply because it's rather daft to run your government on the software of another nation.

[Kosh]

The EU has a population of ~460-480 million as is (excluding other european countries who may join), about 49% of who have internet (i.e. potential customers with computers), and in general is a reasonably high standard of living (i.e. can afford computers).

That's a huge market.

It also doesn't have the piracy issues that certain other countries have.

So what if the EU wants to fine MS?  If Microsoft stopped selling its product to Europe it'd hurt Microsoft, but it'd demolish Europe's economy.  They simply couldn't switch all the programs they need to Linux fast enough to save themselves.

All they have to do is order a whole bunch of pirated copies from China, and the problem solves itself.

So, the EU really can't force Microsoft, and American company to do much of anything.

If M$ wants to operate in the Eurozone, they have to comply with the EU's rulings. They don't have a choice.

And does anyone else think it is sad that foreign governments (namely the EU and South Korea) are doing more to reign in M$'$ illegal, monopolistic practices than the American government?

[Mars]

American politics get all their funding from corperations like Microsoft, why would they keep them from getting money by any means possible?

[Descenterace]

OK, so MS releases documentation for all current Windows software. Then Vista comes out and the protocols are 'enhanced'. They release a bit more documentation, but stall just long enough to bugfix the new protocols and change them again...

[Flipside]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5171126.stm

280 Million Euros.

[Kosh]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5171126.stm

280 Million Euros.

They got PWN3D

[Shade]

Also, no longer selling to Europe would not cripple anyone. The people and organizations who need windows, office etc., already have them. They'd just be stuck with the current version until they could migrate to Linux.

Which, incidentally, is another huge reason why MS would be really stupid to try something like that - It would force a population of nearly 500.000.000 people and something like 20 of the 25 wealthiest and most advanced nations on the planet to get serious about Linux, and believe me, MS does not want people with that kind of resources to get serious about Linux (not that this would be a bad thing for anyone else). It would destroy them.

[redmenace]

I am totally convinced companies in Europe have been greasing the wheals for a long time.

[Flipside]

Not at all, the stipulations were set out quite clearly, and Microsoft point-blank refused to comply with them. They were to supply more information to 3rd party vendors to allow them to make their programs more effective under Windows, and they were told to stop includiing Media Player as part of Windows because it was monopolizing by trying to destroy the market cut of other Media Player distributors. It's not that the wheels have been greased, it's that our Monopoly laws are pretty clear on the subject, and despite being requested several times, Microsoft refused to comply, even when warned with the consequences.

If anything, this was a case of Microsoft thumbing its nose at the European business sector and expecting to get away with it, not vice-versa.

[redmenace]

No, like in the US, what really initiated the Anti-Trust actions by the justice department was the fact that microsofts competitors had made large donations to the Clinton Administration. I am not convinced EU and other European Governing authorities would be any different.

Aside from that, I don't think microsoft should have to give away proprietary information. Information in the wrong hands that might make windows less secure based on what is in it. Ultimatly I am not convinced that this will do more good than harm. Fines, ok fine. But giving other companies a leg up by forcing microsoft to give up a bonafied strategic advantage, I don't think so. I honestly hate microsoft, but I hate all forms of "anti-trust" law just as much. The most fundamental example is that of ALCOA.

[Flipside]

Well, we'll have to wait and see, I'm sure there are lots of different theories regarding the Anti-Trust suits agaist MS depending on your opinion of their business practices etc, and since I'm not sure exactly what kind of information MS were asked to release, I can't really comment on the security side of it.

For my part, I've not got much against MS at all, I won't say I hate them or anything, but I think claiming conspiracy because a European organisation fined an American company is something we will have to wait and see about.

[redmenace]

I understand your stance. But I am not going to be naive about how the world works, no offense. I do believe in justice. But I hate politicians for the most part and how they abuse their positions. It is even worse when the law its self is abused. Like lawsuits against a aerosal company in which a child died from inhaling fumes (on purpose). Or how AMDs latest Anti-Trust actions against Intel have a sneaky resemblance to nothing more than a PR stunt.