Author Topic: Eureka Seven  (Read 15176 times)

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Offline Nuclear1

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Seems kinda silly for Adult Swim.

Then again, they did edit the hooker scene from Outlaw Star...DVD dubs ftw.

Outlaw Star was actually the only show on Adult Swim that I followed faithfully. The rest was pretty much crap, IMO.
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Offline redsniper

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Holy CRAP! :eek:
I don't know if anyone is still following this besides me and forgive the mild necromancy, but tonight's episode was just... NUTS! Evangelion-level amounts of blood and gore, child abuse, and even a severed arm to boot. Any worries about the main character being a pansy are now completely dispelled. The show has just crossed a significant threshold into the realm of the hardcore. :yes:
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Offline Getter Robo G

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I think the worst "child abuse", are any kids subjected to Eva's Angst.. It's far more deadly than Gundam Wing's

:lol:

Oooooo! A severed arm? Mecha or Human (you get more points for maming a living character for life!!!) I might have to watch it tonight.  :nod:

I only saw like 2 episodes, I'd call that girl "Mama" too!  ;7

 :eek2: :nervous: :p :lol:
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Offline Mongoose

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As a regular poster on [adult swim]'s message boards, I've had the distinct pleasure of getting to know a great group of anime fans who can often help guide first-timers like me through new series.  So, with a few arguments borrowed from one of these members, perhaps the series' most dedicated fan around (and trust me, this guy's seen hundreds of series, and he ranks this in his top 5), let me try to make a few little corrections over some "misconceptions":

1. This ain't your average generic mecha, folks, despite what "sky-surfing robots" might suggest.  (And let's face it: those kick ass too. :D)  E7's focus is on its characters, their interactions with one another, and the way they grow throughout the series; Renton's already gone through a hell of a lot of changes from where he started out, and last night's premiere episode illustrated very vividly just how complex the character of Holland is.  At its utter core, though, E7 is really a love story, that of Renton and Eureka, and a compelling, moving love story at that.  This series won several "best series of '05" awards in Japan, so don't try to tell me it's some ****ty mech-fest.

2. The series has already given plenty of exposition as to why the members of the Gekkostate are fighting the military; these aren't a series of mindless battles here.  Yes, it's true that we don't know the whole story yet, but that's simply because this series' MO is that of limiting what the viewer knows until it wishes to reveal the info.  We see this series through Renton's eyes, so if he doesn't really know what's going on yet, neither should we.  There's also the fact that we're only 40% of the way through, and last night's episode marked a massive turning point in how the series progresses from here.

3. Renton another Shinji?  Please. :lol:  I actually enjoyed Evangelion when it aired on [as] last year (and trust me, I'm in the distinct minority on those forums), but Renton is practically a polar opposite to Shinji, and he showed why in only the first or second episode.  It took Shinji some 26 episodes to realize that he "mustn't run away;" Renton reached that point in some 20 or 30 minutes. :p Unlike Shinji, Renton has a very optimistic outlook on life, and he's dedicated himself to protecting the mysterious girl he's fallen head-over-heels in love with, Eureka.  Oh yeah, that's right; the whole "love" thing.  Whereas Shinji has not one clue what to do around girls (seriously, dude, keep it in the pants...), here's a kid who's actually trying to win the heart of someone he loves.  There's absolutely no basis for comparison here.

4. What happened in last night's episode.  Without getting into details, the entire episode was one long ratcheting-up of tension, culminating in a final 60 seconds that were, without a doubt, the most visceral visual sequence I've ever had the privilege to see.  I was literally sitting in my chair sweating like crazy and feeling sick to the stomach.  We WERE Renton during that scene, and the realization that we reached was enough to sicken even the most hardened person.  Truly, this was a spectacular achievment in visual storytelling.

5. While I unfortunately can't say that E7 has run completely unedited, all in all, the edits have been extremely few and far between, consisting of bleeped-out curses for the most part.  There's also been digital blurring applied to a book cover on which appears the image of a nude woman.  By far the most significant edit of all occurred last night, though, when a shot that represented the most graphic aspect of that episode's conclusion was spliced from the broadcast.  (Thankfully, thanks to the "subbie" mentioned above, I was able to see the ending as it was intended.)  While this edit was rather heinous, especially considering what aired during Trinity Blood's premiere an hour earlier (TB was broadcast with a TV-MA rating, while E7 had TV-14), there's at least some evidence to suggest that it was Bandai themselves, and not [as], who excised the shot.  [as] has the MA rating available, so the only logical explanation is that the license for the series contains some sort of stipulation about it.  With any luck, we'll be able to get an answer about this relatively soon.

So, to cut a long story short, Eureka 7 =/= generic mecha, and Eureka 7 most decidedly =/= Evangelion.  If you're a fan of fantastic character development and a plot that is gradually revealed to you over 50 episodes, then I highly recommend picking it up some time.  (I would probably advise against starting to watch the premieres now, since you'll be utterly lost.)  If you're not a fan of these things, then go back to watching whatever ****ty series you do enjoy.

P.S. Also, major props to both Bleach and Trinity Blood's premieres on [as] last night.  That was one hell of a 90-minute anime run. :)

 

Offline Bobboau

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alreight, you have a link to this eppisode? I'll give the show a second chance.
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Stuff.

Fine, fine, that's great. Now tell me this: how well did they handle the mecha aspect of it? What would you say it's closest to if you had to compare their handling to something else?

Because just like Eva did, a giant robot show with crappy handling of the giant robots is an instant failure. Regardless of all other attributes. Blow your..."gimmick", if you will, and you've shot yourself in the foot.
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Offline Fury

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Because just like Eva did, a giant robot show with crappy handling of the giant robots is an instant failure. Regardless of all other attributes. Blow your..."gimmick", if you will, and you've shot yourself in the foot.
The only good mecha-oriented shows I have seen are Full Metal Panic and Vision of Escaflowne, both are something all of you should watch if you have at least little interest in the genre or even anime in general. I just might torrent E7 and see what's the fuss about.

 

Offline Mongoose

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Stuff.

Fine, fine, that's great. Now tell me this: how well did they handle the mecha aspect of it? What would you say it's closest to if you had to compare their handling to something else?

Because just like Eva did, a giant robot show with crappy handling of the giant robots is an instant failure. Regardless of all other attributes. Blow your..."gimmick", if you will, and you've shot yourself in the foot.
First off, I'm not entirely sure what you mean by Eva having "crappy handling" of the mechs.  The Angel fights were probably my favorite part of the whole series, particularly in episodes like 18 and 24.  I'd appreciate it if you could clarify what you mean. 

As far as Eureka 7's mech handling goes, I don't really know enough anime to compare it to anything else, but I'm fairly sure that it has some rather unique elements.  The mechs in the series (mostly called LFOs) have both a wheeled vehicle mode and a standing humanoid mode.  It's in this humanoid mode that they're able to "fly."  The boards that they fly on make use of a property of the planet's atmosphere known as "trapar," short for "transparent particles."  They essentially reflect off of the trapar to generate lift.  (There's an element of surfer culture to the series as part of this; for instance, two of the characters are named Gidget and Moondoggie.)  There seems to be a whole lot of mystery behind the trapar that hasn't been explained yet at the point of the series [as] has reached, so I know there's more there.  As far as the mechs themselves go, we already know that there's something very special about the Nirvash Type Zero, which Renton and Eureka pilot, but exactly what that is, we don't know yet.  If that's not what you wanted to know, then again, just add some further detail.

However, if you had really read all of my post, you'd know that the way the mechs are handled isn't really all that crucial to the series as a whole.  Like I said, this isn't a series that revolves around the mechs.  While the LFOs and their fights are important to the series as a whole, they're a far second to character development and relationships.  The true soul of the series is in the way that it fleshes out its characters, making them seem very human and realistic in a way I've rarely come across before in fiction.  Renton's neither the utterly idealistic stereotypical teenage mech pilot nor the utterly morose and depressed Shinji archetype.  He's a regular 14-year-old boy, with the same overbearing optimism, mood swings, and emotional immaturity of pretty much any 14-year-old out there.  Holland, another of the main characters, seems to be the suave leader of a cool counterculture group, but both Renton and the viewer soon see that he's got a huge amount of emotional baggage and stress.  Again, when it comes down to it, this series is about character development, primarily the relationship between Renton and Eureka.  The mech action is just the garnish on top of that.  There's no "gimmick" here.

Quote from: Fury
The only good mecha-oriented shows I have seen are Full Metal Panic and Vision of Escaflowne, both are something all of you should watch if you have at least little interest in the genre or even anime in general. I just might torrent E7 and see what's the fuss about.
Fury, I'd highly recommend giving the series a shot.  It may not be something you find yourself hooked on right away, but if you give it enough time, you'll most likely wind up really enjoying it.  I personally fell in love with it almost immediately, but I've heard of plenty of people who took up until the mid-teens, or particularly episode 20, where [as] is right now, to really get hooked.  It may not even be a certain point that you can define, but you suddenly realize how much you're enjoying it.  I have it on very good authority that things just keep getting better from here on out, so I'm very much looking forward to continuing to follow it.

P.S. One other thing I ought to mention is that this is the first truly original series produced by BONES, the same people who worked on things like the Bebop movie (and I believe most of the people there were also involved with the series), Wolf's Rain, RaXephon, and Fullmetal Alchemist.  Dai Sato, who contributed to Bebop, Samurai Champloo, Wolf's Rain, Ghost in the Shell: Stand-Alone Complex, and Ergo Proxy, was the man behind the series composition.  There's some serious talent that went into making this series, and it shows.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2006, 03:38:35 am by Mongoose »

 

Offline Bobboau

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wow you've realy got to be streaching it to tell me that a show with giant robots who's primary mode of locomotion is to surf through the sky, doesn't have a gimmic. I'm sorry but that is a huge hurtle to overcome in the suspention of disbelife department, this whole thing sounds like a bad gundam wing fanfic. and the fact that you dismiss this as some triviality makes me distrust you jugement.

but as I said, find last night's eppisode on youtube or the such and I'll look into it.
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Offline redmenace

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Torrent the fan sub. If you want I can transfer it to you as well.
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Offline NGTM-1R

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First off, I'm not entirely sure what you mean by Eva having "crappy handling" of the mechs.  The Angel fights were probably my favorite part of the whole series, particularly in episodes like 18 and 24.  I'd appreciate it if you could clarify what you mean. 

Basically it comes down to a vast overdose of sillytech. They gave the EVAs a time limit on their activity without a direct connection to a power source, which was a rather neat idea and made a lot of sense. It could have been much more developed, hell, it could have been what set the damn show apart in terms of mecha. Adds more suspense if you're racing the clock every time you get disconnected, or having to fight power levels and an Angel at the same time.

Instead they went and invented some damn "berserk mode" silliness to get around it when it got in the way instead of handling it like they could write worth ****. Dragging out the Plot Devices Inc. crap like that is something I'd expect to find in a bad fanfic. It's poor writing. It reeks of author fiat. It reeks of not thinking, of stupidity, of not being willing to face up to your mistakes.

Handling the mecha well means more then just cool fight scenes. Yes, Eva had those. But the overall way they treated the EVAs and how the EVAs fit in to everything else in the show was handled in a very half-assed manner.

As far as Eureka 7's mech handling goes, I don't really know enough anime to compare it to anything else, but I'm fairly sure that it has some rather unique elements.  The mechs in the series (mostly called LFOs) have both a wheeled vehicle mode and a standing humanoid mode.  It's in this humanoid mode that they're able to "fly."  The boards that they fly on make use of a property of the planet's atmosphere known as "trapar," short for "transparent particles."  They essentially reflect off of the trapar to generate lift.  (There's an element of surfer culture to the series as part of this; for instance, two of the characters are named Gidget and Moondoggie.)  There seems to be a whole lot of mystery behind the trapar that hasn't been explained yet at the point of the series [as] has reached, so I know there's more there.  As far as the mechs themselves go, we already know that there's something very special about the Nirvash Type Zero, which Renton and Eureka pilot, but exactly what that is, we don't know yet.  If that's not what you wanted to know, then again, just add some further detail.

Shades of MS Gundam's Minovosky physics. The White Base and similar-sized intra-atmospheric flying objects, and much later on in the UC continuity individual mobile suits, did rather the same thing via Minovosky Drive...but without the surfboards. They never did bother to really explain the Minovosky particles either, at least in the show, so don't get your hopes up too much.

I never did like DC Comics' Silver Surfer either.

But I digress. It seems you're thinking more shallowly then I am accustomed to. I will relate to you a story, and then you can see what I kind of things I look for when I talk about handling the giant robots well.

08th MS Team, of the UC Gundam continuity, is the best mecha show ever made. Perhaps it's not fair to compare it to this, since 08th was shorter and probably invested considerably more in quality animation. But then again what makes it the best could have been done with stick figures if anyone had bothered to think before. Quite simply someone went "Hey, wait a minute, we've been having them jump like humans all this time. We've already established they have to use thrusters to jump, since they are huge chunks of metal. We should stop having them jump like humans then." And so when they drew Terry Sanders' RX-78[G] jumping at the Apsalus I, they made it look like it was a giant robot that was being lifted off the ground by it's thrusters and not a guy inside a suit of armor jumping. 08th MS Team has much else to recommend it, of course, but it's touches like that which seperate the great from the merely good.

They bothered to think, you see. They woke up and realized that they're dealing with a multi-ton sixteen-meter-tall humanoid war machine, and hey, this is not a prop on the order of a nifty gun. This a prop on the order of a Viper or the Galactica itself on BSG. To properly make use of it requires the same kind of attention to detail and thought. Yes, you can just wave it around going "Oooh shiney!", but that merely displays to the world one's immaturity as a writer or director.

However, if you had really read all of my post, you'd know that the way the mechs are handled isn't really all that crucial to the series as a whole.  Like I said, this isn't a series that revolves around the mechs.  While the LFOs and their fights are important to the series as a whole, they're a far second to character development and relationships.  The true soul of the series is in the way that it fleshes out its characters, making them seem very human and realistic in a way I've rarely come across before in fiction.  Renton's neither the utterly idealistic stereotypical teenage mech pilot nor the utterly morose and depressed Shinji archetype.  He's a regular 14-year-old boy, with the same overbearing optimism, mood swings, and emotional immaturity of pretty much any 14-year-old out there.  Holland, another of the main characters, seems to be the suave leader of a cool counterculture group, but both Renton and the viewer soon see that he's got a huge amount of emotional baggage and stress.  Again, when it comes down to it, this series is about character development, primarily the relationship between Renton and Eureka.  The mech action is just the garnish on top of that.  There's no "gimmick" here.

Surely you jest.

Fine, then Gundam Wing was Heero and Relena's love story and had no gimmick. Wake the hell up, man, and smell the flowers. You even make reference to surfer culture being a part of the show and you say it has no gimmick?

But I digress.

For better or worse it has assigned itself the label of mecha. This carries with it certain, rather large, baggage. I.E. the aforementioned 16-meter-tall humanoid war machine baggage. Perhaps I'm being unfair. Perhaps dealing with a reality like BattleTech that got down into the nitty-gritty of the care and feeding of giant robots, that really considered the implications of having these things stomping around all the time and leaving your sidewalks in ruins, spoiled me. But then again, perhaps I should not countance the bad behavior of those who don't bother to think about such things.

I must also point out that its uniqueness, aside from the highly questionable surfer bit, is simply not there. Your description brings forcibly to mind Zoids Chaotic Century, which was ultimately about Fiona and Van, not the Liger. But I suspect the Liger was handled better.

And those who contributed gives me no faith. It frankly reads a lot like my anime crap list, with exception of Bebop. Wolf's Rain is garbage. The others have their moments but can't escape the fact they're fundementally unbalanced; they are characters floating around without adequate support from anything else, the technically well-executed equivalent of Saturday morning faire. Perhaps they've learned their lesson by now. But I doubt it.
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Offline Bobboau

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Ey! I liked FMA! and GITS:SAC
( :lol: haha makes a funny acronim)
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Ey! I liked FMA! and GITS:SAC
( :lol: haha makes a funny acronim)

Nobody's perfect. :nervous: :p
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Offline Mongoose

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God, I royally suck at giving this series the pimping it deserves.  Let me try to take this one step at a time...

wow you've realy got to be streaching it to tell me that a show with giant robots who's primary mode of locomotion is to surf through the sky, doesn't have a gimmic. I'm sorry but that is a huge hurtle to overcome in the suspention of disbelife department, this whole thing sounds like a bad gundam wing fanfic. and the fact that you dismiss this as some triviality makes me distrust you jugement.
If this was just my judgment alone to go on, then you might have reason to doubt me, but it goes a lot farther than that.  I know several enormous anime fans (we're talking people who've seen what probably amounts to a few hundred series here) who picked this up subbed, fell in love with it, and eventually wound up ranking it in their top 5 series they'd ever seen, right up there with things like Cowboy Bebop, Paranoia Agent, and Monster.  I know the "I know a guy" line might not do much for you, but these are people whose anime fandom I respect immensely, and they're ones who got me into the series in the first place.

As for what  you're actually asking about, you might not believe it, but what I said is true.  Yes, the mechs in this series use what are essentially giant surfboards to fly.  Yes, the aircraft on this planet use the same technology, which essentially consists of reflective films that use specific subatomic particles in the atmosphere to generate lift.  But that's it.  There's no "stretching" here.  You find out that that's the way things are, and then we move on with the plot.  It's honestly not too hard to get past.  Like I said, the whole mecha aspect isn't even remotely what the series focuses on at all.  This is just about as far from Gundam as you can get, and it's sure as hell no "fanfic."  We're twenty episodes in, and we're still mostly in the dark about what's going on in this world.  The series takes its time to build an intricate plot, just giving you enough sniffs along the way to keep you hooked.

As for YouTube, what's to stop you yourself from going out there and finding it?  Last night's episode was 20, but I will say that it probably won't make much sense, nor have any sort of real impact, if you haven't been watching up until then.

*lotsa stuff*
I barely know where to start here, but I'll give it a shot.  First off, regarding Eva, I don't think you can call a main component of the truth to the series a mere "plot device" made to get around the whole time limit issue.  That wasn't what it was there for at all.  But I'm not here to talk about Eva, so I'll move on...

I don't really get what the heck you're on regarding 08th MS Team.  I've never seen any of the Gundam series, and to be perfectly honest, I don't have too much desire to.  Even if I had seen this series, why the hell would I care how mechs jump?  Maybe I'm just fundamentally different than you with what I'm looking for, but that seems like the most trivial, nit-picky thing to focus on.  You seem to be forgetting one thing: this is science fiction.  Last time I checked, giant robots are pretty much the most unfeasible weapon of war ever devised in the imagination of writers.  Who gives a damn if they're "scientifically" accurate?  That's part of the whole "suspension of disbelief" thing.  At least to me, the plot, characters, artistry, soundtrack, and general quality of a series are infinitely more important than its adherance to any sort of "realistic" standards.

Still, for the record, I will go ahead and say that this series doesn't treat the LFOs as "giant toys."  They, too, have thrusters that they use to enter standing mode and to maneuver in flight.  (Once again, I fail to see what makes thrusters so "revolutionary.")  They're powered by rechargable batteries; the lack of charge became an issue in this past episode.  They have actual physical limitations in flight; it isn't all "let's fly wherever/whenever the hell we want to."  They are as vulnerable as the mechs that the enemies of the Gekkostate (the main group of protagonists) pilot.  One other little detail I didn't mention before is that the machinery in this world requires devices called Compac Drives to enable their control; we don't exactly have all the details on what they do yet.  In short, there's a hell of a lot of thought put into mech design and function here, and dismissing it without ever having seen an episode doesn't make much sense to me.

The funny thing is, though, that none of what I argued in that last paragraph really matters in the grand scheme of things.  I assure you, I'm fully "woken up" here.  This series isn't a mecha, and classifying it as a mecha is a mistake.  It's a human drama that just so happens to have mechs in it.  There's nothing at all self-delusional about that.  (As for the surfing, there's no "gimmick" here, and it's not even close to prevalent throughout the series; it's an homage by the creator to 50s California culture.  There are plenty of references in this series, to things as varied as electronic music synthesizers and Steve Jobs.  A whole lot of thought went into all of this.)  Again, like I said before, I've never seen Gundam, so comparisons to it mean nothing to me.  But I can tell you that this series is at a much higher level than any sort of Zoids drivel.  There's excellent story structure, incredible character development, and an underlying care to drawing the viewer deeper and deeper in.  I'm not just pulling all of this out of my ass; it's become apparent to me as the series has gone on that I truly love these characters, and I have a hell of an emotional investment in what happens to them.  That, to me, is what good anime, and good storytelling in general, is all about, and that comes through loud and clear in this series.

As for dismissing the entire works of BONES so cavalierly, I'm sorry, but I think that's pretty absurd.  The series I mentioned contain among them some of the best-loved and most critically acclaimed series to come out of Japan in the past few years.  Ghost in the Shell: Stand-Alone Complex was a ****ing brilliant series; I don't know how many times I've seen the first season, but I'm still gaining new insights into the plot every time I watch.  Wolf's Rain was artistry at its best, so sad yet so beautiful.  (I shouldn't even have to mention the fact that the incomparable Yoko Kanno did the soundtracks for these two.)  Champloo was an amazing blend of anachronism and hip-hop with feudal Japan, with three complex and evolving main characters to boot.  Fullmetal Alchemist threw in all kinds of plot twists over its 51 episodes and kept all of us watching it on [as] on the edge of our seats until the very end.  Saying these don't have "adequate support" or that their characters are "flopping around" is about the most narrow-minded view I've ever come across.  BONES is renowed for their animation quality and the subsequent quality of the series they've produced.  You can't just write this up as "garbage" when it's included in "best series" lists everywhere.

...Look, I know this probably didn't do anything at all for you.  I normally wouldn't get so worked up about this, but this is a series I've grown to absolutely love, and seeing it get ripped from people who've had not so much as a sniff of it just pisses me off.  If my words didn't do anything, then try taking a look at this.  It's a preview that one of the subbies on the [adult swim] forums put together for the second season of the series, which we're in now.  At the very least, it'll give you a slight insight into the character and mech designs of the series, even if it can't begin to show you the way the plot and characters have slowly and steadily unfolded from episode 1.

 

Offline Fury

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Ey! I liked FMA! and GITS:SAC
( :lol: haha makes a funny acronim)

Nobody's perfect. :nervous: :p
Full Metal Alchemist was an ace series and a movie! Definitely worth watching. Ghost in the Shell on the other hand... well, the movies and series were decent.

 

Offline redsniper

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Offline Fury

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  • 213
(I shouldn't even have to mention the fact that the incomparable Yoko Kanno did the soundtracks for these two.)
I love Yoko Kanno's work, soundtrack of Vision of Escaflowne is still one of my favorites. :)

  

Offline redmenace

  • 211
I love SAC.
Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.
              -Frederic Bastiat

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

  • HLP is my mistress
  • Moderator
  • 213
  • Aken Tigh Dekker- you've probably heard me
    • My old squad sub-domain
I've never heard of Adult Swim, and to be honest i dont think i'll be following this line of thought much :ick:
Campaigns I've added my distinctiveness to-
- Blue Planet: Battle Captains
-Battle of Neptune
-Between the Ashes 2
-Blue planet: Age of Aquarius
-FOTG?
-Inferno R1
-Ribos: The aftermath / -Retreat from Deneb
-Sol: A History
-TBP EACW teaser
-Earth Brakiri war
-TBP Fortune Hunters (I think?)
-TBP Relic
-Trancsend (Possibly?)
-Uncharted Territory
-Vassagos Dirge
-War Machine
(Others lost to the mists of time and no discernible audit trail)

Your friendly Orestes tactical controller.

Secret bomb God.
That one time I got permabanned and got to read who was being bitxhy about me :p....
GO GO DEKKER RANGERSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
President of the Scooby Doo Model Appreciation Society
The only good Zod is a dead Zod
NEWGROUNDS COMEDY GOLD, UPDATED DAILY
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Offline kode

  • The Swedish Chef
  • 28
  • The Swede
    • http://theswe.de
I kinda watched a few eps of E7 back when it started up in japan. since then I kinda dropped it. not because I didn't particularly like it, but because I didn't feel like watching what (after 10 eps or so) seemed to be just your average mecha show. don't get me wrong. I love BONES. They're definitely among my top 3 anime studios. It's just, I kinda expected another Kenran Butoh Sai.
Pray, v. To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy.
- Ambrose Bierce
<Redfang> You're almost like Stryke 9 or an0n
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."
- Aldous Huxley
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH