[Mehrpack]

hi,
GSLS is only a language and is component of OpenGL 2.0.

i dont really know if GSLS work with older versions of OpenGL, like 1.x, but any newer driver for graphiccards have today Support for OpenGL 2.0.
if the hardware not 100% compatible, the driver emulate the missing features.
so i think it should work but im not sure.

maybe in the programm its possible to say to assembly the code to older version.

in HSLS its that possible, so can you programm a code and assembly it to many differnt Pixelshader version for Direct3D, imho.

Mehrpack

[wolf]

What GFX-Card do I need to make use of GLSL?
Because my GeForce 3 does have shaders already... But an old Version...

GeForce FX or Radeon 9500 are minimum.

[taylor]

What GFX-Card do I need to make use of GLSL?
Because my GeForce 3 does have shaders already... But an old Version...

GeForce FX or Radeon 9500 are minimum.

I think it depends more on what the effect is really.  I'm pretty sure that GLSL vertex shaders are supported in hardware on the GeForce3 and above at the least.  Some other things are emulated on the old GeForce3+ cards.  We'll just have to be sure to support various features levels, getting the most functionality out of the most amount of cards.  But do so without turning the code into complete spaghetti in the process of course.

[Mr_Maniac]

Yey!
Pure Happiness!

It's unbelievable, what you guys made so far with the FS2-Code!
And it's also unbelievable what you will be making!

I love it!

[Nuke]

yes it is all rather impressive isnt it

[neoterran]

it's too bad the campaigns don't move at the same speed as the source code.

[taylor]

We've got to wait for all of the data to catch up too.  The MediaVPs are still lagging behind at the moment.  With the shader support, we'll actually need shader effects, so that will be something for people to come up with.  And I've got partially working bumpmap code with these test images I've been sent, so that will be something else that the map makers will have to deal with when that hits CVS.  I'll probably add the bumpmap support about the same time as the shader support hits CVS so those things will hit everyone at once.  The problem is, of course, that those features are useless without the data to go with them.  :

[Nuke]

it's too bad the campaigns don't move at the same speed as the source code.

thats cause every time the modders finish something the scp guys give em something else to implement.
id love to spend more time on my mod. but its just not a feasable thing for an adult to do. sure people whi are in highschool or coledge have plenty of time to mod, once you get old, your time gets raped! coders can do it only because their brains have been conditioned to be effietient. taylor must be a mentat

[Flipside]

Remember, for every feature the SCP add, most campaigns have a large number of ships to update. Many of us are still trying to catch up with the HT&L updates, let alone animated subsystems etc etc, and the new shader system is going to kick up another round of it

[neoterran]

taylor must be a mentat Big grin

<mentat>"By the juice of Safu I set my mind in motion, my thoughts acquire speed, my lips acquire stains, the stains become a warning. By the juice of Safu I set my mind in motion"</mentat>

[Mehrpack]

[...]  The problem is, of course, that those features are useless without the data to go with them.  :

hi,
they are not useless, definitive not.

because, if there no sign of that feature, the people who have the skill see no really reason to begin the work of creating thing for features and they cant test/work without the new features really.

but if it in, the things will came out.
but its true that i need time to use any new feature.
i think its normal that there is a great time between new features come out and the stuff which support the feature will release.

i mean look at SEE or a new DirectX version or OpenGL release.
it need some time before the first games or software is release what really use the new features.

so its not true to say, without stuff its useless to release new features.

Mehrpack

[Nuke]

taylor must be a mentat Big grin

<mentat>"By the juice of Safu I set my mind in motion, my thoughts acquire speed, my lips acquire stains, the stains become a warning. By the juice of Safu I set my mind in motion"</mentat>

THAT WAS NEVER IN THE BOOK!!!!!
though im sure taylor hits the sapho from time to time. the guys just a genious. anyway if the shader language is about the same as lua script i should be able to do some shaders. if done a couple shader scripts for quake games so it its anything like those i can hack it.

[DaBrain]

EDIT:  wolf posted these shots to the scp.indiegames.us forums:

http://team.pld-linux.org/~wolf/krtqavv.png
http://team.pld-linux.org/~wolf/zgqgapi.png

"These are pure in-game screenshots, no smartshaders or anything were used. The effect is not final." - wolf

Wow... those pics are pretty nice. I can see the well-known blooming problems though. Colorful effects get over saturated. Just like the warp effect. Anyway, I hope it will be possible to fix the 'shader effect', or we could just optimize the content for it.

Is wolf posting at indiegames only? Cause I'd really like to congratulate him for this.

[taylor]

Wow... those pics are pretty nice. I can see the well-known blooming problems though. Colorful effects get over saturated. Just like the warp effect. Anyway, I hope it will be possible to fix the 'shader effect', or we could just optimize the content for it.

wolf said it wasn't a final effect (I've seen slightly different versions already), plus you'll be able to use your own if you want.  The effects will work like tbl's basically, functionality wise, where the defaults are stored in the executable, but you can override those with versions on the disk or in a VP.

And I still want per-effect/per-ship effects rather than the overall effect that it is now.  That's slower of course, but it's something new for me to spend countless hours trying to optimize.   Plus, it would give better control to the artists/designers out there so I think that the work would be worth it in the end.

Is wolf posting at indiegames only? Cause I'd really like to congratulate him for this.

He's posted in this thread already, but I'm not sure how often he checks here.  Feel free to congradulate away though, the man certainly deserves it.

[Mr_Maniac]

And I still want per-effect/per-ship effects rather than the overall effect that it is now.  That's slower of course, but it's something new for me to spend countless hours trying to optimize.   Plus, it would give better control to the artists/designers out there so I think that the work would be worth it in the end.

Like I said:
Shader-TBMs

[wolf]

wolf said it wasn't a final effect (I've seen slightly different versions already)

There's need to do some tweaking, but basically it's just how it will look.

And I still want per-effect/per-ship effects rather than the overall effect that it is now.

We will need artists to create greyscale textures that will represent amount of the glow. Right now everything is maxed out and it can look very bad in some cases.

[Nuke]

cant we just use the glowmaps for that? we already have too many maps to work with as it is.

[Flipside]

Well, I think that is something the Coders are looking into, but I'm not certain, I know the idea was thrown around for a material format that would put all the layers for a texture into one file, but I don't know if anything came of it beyond that, I'll leave it to the people in the know to let you know

[Nuke]

i wonder if there will ever be a multilayer dds format, that lets you put in as many chanels as wou want and its sctill compressed and can be loaded to vidmem compressed. that would be awesome. there was the concept of putting a bunch of grascale maps into different channels of a texture, using red for shine, green for env, blue for bump, alpha for shine, ect. i was against color shinemaps at first for this reason, but the irredecence effect is too nice to do away with.

[itay390]

well, if software shader still count then i've improved the software shader of bloom
ive made a function with more control, sorry but its the same speed (well its better speed but now its more options so it makes it the same speed), and better bloom.
taylor - patch : http://planet.nana.co.il/itay390d/bloom.txt
there is bloom and bloom2 function, bloom is the previous function and now bloom2 is the currect
the problem that the screen is being lighten when there is friendly ship closing or when you shoot still exsists. i don't know how to solve this because im not expert in freespace source but it comes from the read pixels and draw pixels function and not from the bloom function.
some documention about bloom2 function.
void bloom2(unsigned char *pixeldata,unsigned char *blurlayer,int w, int h, int kernelsize,int minbrightness, int multiplation);
*pixeldata is the pointer to the original freespace image. which will be bloomed at the end.
*blurlayer is the pointer to the blurred freespace image.
w - the width of the window you want to bloom
h - the height of the window you want to bloom
kernelsize - the recommended value is 5 i think. as the number is higher, the bloom getting more widen , or blurred, being more spread. also, as the kernelsize number is higher the bloom is being produced slower.
minbrightness - this is a special feature with the new bloom2 function (well it was also in bloom ver 1 but it was bugged) you can specify from what brightness i.e. "gamma" the bloom will take place. for exmaple, if you want only explosions and jumps and bright stuff to get bloomed, so the minbrightness should be 100 or more. if you want everything to get bloomed then the value is 0.
multiplation - this is a number you multiply the blurred image, more higher value means greater glow. recommended value is 2.       
640x480 fps is normally 7 on 2ghz computer. (that's the price you have to pay for using software)
pay attention that the function is optimized. ive tried to do some tricks and 'kiks over the function to get some bits of extra fps. (the starting fps was 1-2) that's the best i could do. without my tricks it would've be x3 shorter function.

images
=====
640x480 images
http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/3692/1it5.jpg
 http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/6659/2du4.jpg
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/1927/3kj8.jpg
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/9875/4lz9.jpg
1024x768 images (diffrent pictures)
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/930/5vf0.jpg
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/6066/6ox3.jpg
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/701/7gx3.jpg
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/9482/8kp2.jpg - pay attention that when there is tremndeous amount of light the surrounding area is being blurred.

well, that's it. im done with software. im not going to make another upgraded bloom.. im moving to hardware.